I respectfully dissent.
The principal issue before us is “Whether the denial of a permit to speak and assemble in a family picnic area in Marquette Park [in Chicago, Illinois] and an offer of an alternative site to speak and assemble in any one of four ‘free forum’ areas within the Chicago Park District, is an abuse of discretion within the constitutionally permissible duty and obligation of the Park District to regulate the time, place and manner of speech and assembly on park property” which the majority claims to be a violation of First Amendment *758rights under the Constitution of the United States.
The Park District concedes “We must under constitutional law, concede his [Collin’s] full and free right to speak and assemble without censorship or prior restraint somewhere on Park District property. In conceding this right, we have made locations available in four of the largest and most centrally located parks in Chicago, viz., Washington Park (South Side); Garfield Park (West Side); Lincoln Park (near North side and adjacent to Lake Michigan and the outer drive) and Burnham Park (near South side and adjacent to Lake Michigan and the outer drive).”
Area No. 3 in Marquette Park is used for a family picnic and recreation area in the spring, summer and fall. It customarily is used by children often accompanied by their parents or relatives, and never before has there been a permit granted for anyone to speak in Area No. 3. It was estimated by the Park District that between 200-500 people would be using the facilities of Area No. 3 on the date plaintiff desired to hold his assembly.1
In the letter of September 1, 1970, from the Park District to plaintiff, it was pointed out that the material which would be distributed by plaintiff in an area normally used for picnics and recreation purposes was similar to the kind previously distributed and which had resulted in public commotion which required police action and protection.
The Park District’s letter did not deny the right of Collin or any other person to roam through the parks distributing literature. In fact, the District had ruled that no permit was needed if no assembly of persons was planned or contemplated.
The permit ordinance under which plaintiff acted was new in July 1970. Under the ordinance, if a permit is denied, the reasons for the denial are sent to the applicant and he is advised of his right to appeal.
A document entitled “1969 Annual Report of the Midwest Division of the National Socialist White People’s Party” was read into evidence. The document is signed by Frank Collin as “Midwest Coordinator.” This document related several accounts of violence such as: April 5, 1959: “Two of our men holding signs which read ‘Gas — The final Solution for Red Scum’ and ‘Gas Jew Traitors Rubin and Hoffman’ ” and then stated “As the procession of traitors neared the corner of State and Lake Streets, six National Socialists attacked the march. This was our baptism of fire. After only a few minutes of bloody fighting, dozens of the enemy lay broken in the street. . . . ”
The report also listed under August 9, 1969: “Again we received national publicity when we demolished the summer’s largest ‘peace’ parade with fists and fireworks before the crowd of thousands of State Street spectators.”
It is apparent that Collin and his group have adopted the doctrine of affirmative violence. They apparently, are proud of their record of attacking and beating up men and women with whom they do not agree. Neither in the administrative hearing nor in the District Court was there any denial of their program of violence.
The District Court found “Rather than peaceful, the entire thrust of the organization seems to be devoted to the loathsome activity of race-baiting. Prior meetings have been attended by violence almost without fail, and the activities of the organization have been attended by violence almost without fail and the activities of the organization *759seem to be dedicated to violent acts of one sort or another. ...”
Another quote from Collin’s Annual Report is “It was no accident that the first Hammer and Sickle flag in America was torn down by a National Socialist, and a fighter of only 16 years of age, at that. . . . ”
Another paragraph ended with “. . . Give us the support we need, and we will give you back your free, White America. Men and women of the Home Front — support the FIGHTING FRONT.”
In Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, 394 U.S. 147 (1969) the Supreme Court, at page 152, 89 S.Ct. 935, 939, 22 L.Ed.2d 162 quoted from Hague v. C.I.O., 307 U.S. 496, 515-516, 59 S.Ct. 954, 83 L.Ed. 1423 (1938): “. . . The privilege of a citizen of the United States to use streets and parks for communication of views on national questions may be regulated in the interest of all; it is not absolute, but relative, and must be exercised in subordination to the general comfort and convenience, and in consonance with peace and good order; but it must not, in the guise of regulation, be abridged or denied.”
In Cox v. Louisiana, 379 U.S. 536, 554, 85 S.Ct. 453, 464, 13 L.Ed.2d 471 (1965), Mr. Justice Goldberg, in his majority opinion, discussed the regulatory powers of a municipality with respect to First Amendment rights of free speech and assembly:
“This contention on the facts here presented raises an issue with which this Court has dealt in many decisions, that is, the right of a State or municipality to regulate the use of city streets and other facilities to assure the safety and convenience of the people in their use and the concomitant right of the people of free speech and assembly. See Lovell v. Griffin, 303 U.S. 444 [58 S.Ct. 666, 82 L.Ed. 949]; Hague v. CIO, 307 U.S. 496 [59 S.Ct. 954, 83 L.Ed. 1423]; Schneider v. State, 308 U.S. 147 [60 S.Ct. 146, 84 L.Ed. 155]; Thornhill v. Alabama, 310 U.S. 88 [60 S.Ct. 736, 84 L.Ed. 1093]; Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 [60 S.Ct. 900, 84 L.Ed. 1213]; Cox v. New Hampshire, 312 U.S. 569 [61 S.Ct. 762, 85 L.Ed. 1049]; Largent v. Texas, 318 U.S. 418 [63 S.Ct. 667, 87 L.Ed. 873]; Saia v. New York, 334 U.S. 558 [68 S.Ct. 1148, 92 L.Ed. 1574]; Kovacs v. Cooper, 336 U.S. 77 [69 S.Ct. 448, 93 L.Ed. 513]; Niemotko v. Maryland, 340 U.S. 268 [71 S.Ct. 325, 95 L.Ed. 267]; Kunz v. New York, 340 U.S. 290 [71 S.Ct. 312, 95 L.Ed. 280]; Poulos v. New Hampshire, 345 U.S. 395 [73 S.Ct. 760, 97 L.Ed. 1105],
From these decisions certain clear principles emerge. The rights of free speech and assembly, while fundamental in our democratic society, still do not mean that everyone with opinions or beliefs to express may address a group at any public place and at any time. The constitutional guarantee of liberty implies the existence of an organized society maintaining public order, without which liberty itself would be lost in the excesses of anarchy.”
In discussing a somewhat similar case, the Supreme Court of Illinois stated that “ . . .It seems manifest to us, however, that neither our own constitution nor the first amendment guarantees [sic] of the Federal constitution gives individuals the unqualified right to speak or distribute their writings in any manner and at any time or place chosen by them without regard to the consequences to others.” Chicago Park District v. Lyons, 39 Ill.2d 584, 590, 237 N.E.2d 519, 523 (1969), cert. den. 393 U.S. 939, 89 S.Ct. 294, 21 L.Ed.2d 276. I agree.
The General Superintendent of the Park District had the duty to grant or deny an application for a permit to assemble and speak, in a family picnic area in a neighborhood park. It was his duty to consider whether the application was such that it would result in real *760danger to the safety of other users of the park.
On the date of the hearing, the General Superintendent delivered to Collin’s counsel a letter denying the application for a permit and suggesting, as an alternative place for the rally, one of the four forum areas. It is clear that this letter from the Superintendent does not deny Collin or any other person the right to roam through the parks distributing his literature. As stated heretofore, no permit is needed if there is no assembly contemplated. Furthermore, as indicated in the majority opinion, Collin has neither applied for nor has an alternative forum in Marquette Park been denied to him or to his followers.
In my view, the decisions of the Park Superintendent and of the District Court were predicated upon valid considerations of public safety and convenience in denying access of Picnic Area No. 3, Marquette Park, to Collin at a time when that area would be occupied by family groups. Furthermore, I feel the Park District ordinance hereinbefore discussed is constitutional. I would affirm.
. The total area of Marquette Park is approximately 322.6 acres with grassy areas occupying about 25 acres. Area No. 3 which is the portion of tiie park plaintiff seeks as a forum is about acre in size. Plaintiff never has listed or indicated an alternative site in Marquette Park, insisting on Area No. 3 in each application for a permit at times when tiie area normally is used by families and children for picnics and recreation.