the Dallas Morning News, Inc. and Kevin Krause v. Lewis Hall and Richard Hall, Individually and on Behalf of Rxpress Pharmacies and Xpress Compounding

FILED
17-0637
12/21/2017 3:21 PM
tex-21442760
SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS
BLAKE A. HAWTHORNE, CLERK

NO. 17-0637

__________________________________________________________________

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS
__________________________________________________

THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, INC. AND KEVIN KRAUSE,

PETITIONERS

V.

LEWIS HALL AND RICHARD HALL, INDIVIDUALLY AND ON
BEHALF OF RXPRESS
PHARMACIES AND XPRESS COMPOUNDING,

RESPONDENTS
__________________________________________________________________

ON APPEAL FROM THE SECOND COURT OF APPEALS
FORT WORTH, TEXAS
NO. 02-16-00371-CV
TRIAL COURT CAUSE NO. CV16-0309
rd
43 JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF PARKER COUNTY, TEXAS
__________________________________________________________________

RESPONDENTS’ UNOPPOSED CONDITIONAL MOTION FOR
JUDICIAL NOTICE
______________________________________________________________

TO THE HONORABLE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS:

Respondents, Lewis Hall and Richard Hall individually and on behalf of

Rxpress Pharmacies and Xpress Compounding (collectively “Respondents”), file

1
this Unopposed 1 Conditional Motion for Judicial Notice, and would respectfully

show the Court:

Respondents conditionally2 request the Court take judicial notice of the

following documents:

1. Tab A – Plaintiff’s Original Petition

2. Tab B – Plaintiff’s Amended Petition

3. Tab C – Plaintiff’s Motion to Compel

4. Tab D – Supplement to Plaintiff’s Motion to Compel

The above-referenced court records, particularly the transcripts attached to

Tabs C and D, contain evidence supporting the statements in Respondents’

Advisory to the Court and Parties filed in the trial court. CR 979–1086.

Particularly, these documents support the allegations that Petitioner Krause had not

just a passive role in the publication of the complained of publications, but that he

struck a deal to publish matters that he knew to be false or dramatically overstated

for the purpose of creating a story3 that would sell newspapers at Respondents’

1
Respondents direct the Court’s attention to the certificate of conference. Clearly Petitioners
request for judicial notice is improper and should not be granted.
2
The request is conditional upon this Court’s ruling on the Motion for Judicial Notice filed by
Petitioners. As explained more fully in Respondents’ motion and response to the Petitioners’
motion, consideration of these matters is not for this Court or the court of appeals, but rather the
trial court in the normal course of this lawsuit. However, should the Court entertain the court
records proffered by Petitioners, those proffered by Respondents should likewise be considered.
3
Respondents again recognize the constitutional implications raised when the media is sued for
defamation. However, Respondents cannot ignore that the Fourth Estate has come under recent
scrutiny itself for the publication and/or creation of “fake news” at the expense of those they are
2
expense—literally.

Pursuant to Rule 201, Respondents hereby conditionally request the Court

take judicial notice of the attached records for consideration of the Petition for

Review and any further briefing or consideration of this case.

Respondents so conditionally pray and for other general relief.

Respectfully submitted,

__________________________________
Robert J. Myers, SBN 14765380
John J. Shaw, SBN 24079312
MYERS ✯LAW
2525 Ridgmar Blvd., Ste. 150
Fort Worth, TX 76116
Tel: (817) 731-2500
Fax: (817) 731-2501
rmyers@myerslawtexas.com
jshaw@myerslawtexas.com

COUNSEL FOR RESPONDENTS

meant to serve. What better example would there be than a reporter sacrificing independence for
the sake of sensationalism?
3
 CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE

I certify that the foregoing document contains 371 words, excluding the
portions excluded by Texas Rule of Appellate Procedure 9.4(i)(1). It was prepared
in Microsoft Word using 14-point typeface for body text and 12-point typeface for
footnotes. In making this certificate of compliance, I am relying on the word count
provided by the software used to prepare the document.

_____________________________
John J. Shaw

CERTIFICATE OF CONFERENCE

I certify that I have conferred with counsel in this matter and he is
unopposed to the relief sought, specifically stating:

“Petitioners are not opposed to the Court taking judicial notice of these
filings, but Petitioners do not concede that these filings are relevant, admissible, or
properly considered by the Court under the TCPA.”

Thus this matter is tendered to the Court for ruling.

Certified to on this 21st day of December, 2017.

_____________________________
John J. Shaw

4
 CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

The undersigned certifies that on December 21, 2017, a true and correct
copy of the foregoing instrument was served on all counsel listed below using the
Court’s electronic case filing system.

Thomas S. Leatherbury
Marc A. Fuller
Kimberly R. McCoy
Margaret D. Terwey
VINSON & ELKINS, LLP
2001 Ross Avenue, Ste. 3700
Dallas, TX 75201

_____________________________
John J. Shaw

5
TAB A
 FILED
DALLAS COUNTY
9/29/2017 1:54 PM
FELICIA PITRE
DISTRICT CLERK

Marissa Pittman
NB~-17-13448

BNM, § IN THE DISTRICT COURT
§
Plaintiff, §
§
v. § DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
§
JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10, §
§
Defendants. § - -- JUDICIAL DISTRICT

PLAINTIFF'S ORIGINAL PETITION

TO THE HONORABLE DISTRICT JUDGE OF SAID COURT:

COMES NOW, Plaintiff BNM ("Plaintiff'), and files this, Plaintiff's Original Petition

against Defendants JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10 ("Defendants") and, for cause, would respectfully

show unto this Honorable Court as follows:

NATURE OF THE ACTION

1. This suit is the vehicle through which the Plaintiff can recover against the

outlandish, brazen acts of the Defendants, morally bankrupt individuals unlawfully tarnishing the

reputation of a highly decorated former Assistant United States Attorney. The Plaintiff brings

this claim for defamation and tortious interference with contract/prospective business advantage.

2. Plaintiff alleges that as a proximate result of the tortious and willful conduct of

the Defendants, he has suffered financial damages. The Defendants have committed

extraordinary acts of dishonesty and deceit towards Plaintiff. Therefore, the Plaintiff seeks all

compensatory damages allowed under Texas law for the injuries caused by their tortious acts and

om1ss1ons.

DISCOVERY CONTROL PLAN
 3. Discovery shall be conducted under Level 3 pursuant to Rule 190.03 of the

TEXAS RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE.

PARTIES

4. Plaintiff BNM can be served by and through his undersigned counsel of record.

5. Defendant JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10 are unknown at this time but the Plaintiff will

supplement with the individual names of the Defendants.

6. This Honorable Court has jurisdiction over this matter, as the amount of the dispute

is within the jurisdictional limits of this Honorable Court. Venue is proper in Dallas County, Texas,

as it is a county in which a substantial part of the events or omissions giving rise to the claims

described herein occurred. This case is not subject to removal.

7. At this time, the Plaintiff is seeking more than $1,000,000.00 in damages against

the Defendants, jointly and severally, and an expedited trial by jury. This case is not subject to

removal to federal court

FACTUAL BACKGROUND

8. This action arises out of Defendant's blatant, egregious, and inequitable trespasses

to, and violations of Plaintiff, Plaintiffs rights and interests, as well as numerous breaches of duties

Defendants owed to Plaintiff. Defendants' fraud, negligence, and intentional torts against Plaintiff,

includes the infliction of severe physical and emotional hardship upon the Plaintiff, and the

intentional infliction of harm to Plaintiff. In addition, upon information and belief, Defendants

knowingly, recklessly, or negligently pursued Plaintiff with tactics designed to deceive, coerce,

harass, or force Plaintiff to engage in dealings with the Defendants.

9. The Defendants have knowingly, recklessly, and/or negligently engaged, or have

allowed themselves to be engaged, in various deceptive techniques and trade practices designed to
mislead the Plaintiff. Defendants and/or their principals, agents, franchisors, and employees have

knowingly, recklessly, and/or negligently misrepresented the true nature of their dealings with the

Plaintiff and knowingly, recklessly, or negligently omitted the disadvantages of associating with

the Defendants. In addition, upon information and belief, Defendants knowingly, recklessly, or

negligently pursued Plaintiff with tactics designed to deceive, coerce, harass, or force Plaintiff to

engage in dealings with the Defendants.

10. Plaintiff brings this action to remedy the harm that Defendant has caused him: (1)

by falsely and fraudulently inducing him to enter into and execute contracts; (2) by fraudulently

inducing him to enter into and execute contracts under duress; (3) by committing numerous

intentional torts against him including, but not limited to, numerous common law torts; (4) by

inflicting severe and intentional emotional distress; (5) by stalking, harassing, and threatening

Plaintiff; (6) by acting negligently toward Plaintiff; (7) by acting recklessly with wanton disregard

to the rights of Plaintiff; (8) by making fraudulent and negligent misrepresentations to Plaintiff and

others; (9) by failing to disclose material information to Plaintiff; and; (10) by breaching fiduciary

duties to Plaintiff.

CAUSES OF ACTION

TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE WITH CONTRACTS AND/OR PROSPECTIVE
BUSINESS RELATIONS

11. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

12. The Defendant acted with the intent to interfere with existing contracts as well as

to prevent execution of prospective contracts. The Plaintiff has lost the opportunity to enter into

several contracts as result of the interference by the Defendant. On information and belief, the
wrongful acts of the Defendant set forth in this Count were done maliciously, oppressively, and

with the intent to harm the Plaintiff, and the Plaintiff is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages

to be ascertained according to proof, which is appropriate to punish and set an example of the

Defendant. Accordingly, the Plaintiff respectfully request that exemplary damages be awarded

against the Defendant in a sum that is not less than three (3) times the amount of Plaintiffs actual

damages.

NEGLIGENCE AND GROSS NEGLIGENCE

13. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

14. The Defendants owed and still owes duties to the Plaintiff. The Defendants

breached these duties which proximately caused damages to the Plaintiff.

15. In addition, Plaintiff will show that the Defendants' acts and omissions, when

viewed objectively from the Defendants' viewpoint, involved an extreme degree of risk,

considering the magnitude and potential harm to the Plaintiff.

16. And, the Defendants had actual, subjective awareness of the risk, but still proceeded

with their scheme with a conscious indifference to the rights, safety or welfare of the Plaintiff.

17. As a proximate result of the Defendants' negligence and gross negligence, the

Plaintiff has been damaged and he seeks to recover all actual, consequential, incidental, and

exemplary damages.

DEFAMATION, SLANDER, AND LIBEL

18. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set
forth fully herein.

19. The Defendants published false statements that negatively affected the Plaintiff.

No privilege, absolute or conditional, attaches to these statements.

20. The Defendants made these statements to third parties without any legitimate

interest in the information contained therein.

21. The Defendants' false statements and omissions caused damages to the Plaintiff.

22. These statements are unambiguous and defamatory or, alternatively, defamatory by

innuendo or implication.

23. Each of the above-referenced acts and omissions, single or in combination with

others, constituted defamation, libel, and slander as well as defamation, libel, and slander per se

and caused the damages suffered by the Plaintiff.

24. As a result, the Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by the defamation/slander.

25. On information and belief, the wrongful acts of the Defendants set forth in this

Count were done maliciously, oppressively, and with the intent to harm the Plaintiff, and the

Plaintiff is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages to be ascertained according to proof, which

is appropriate to punish and set an example of the Defendants. Accordingly, the Plaintiff

respectfully requests that exemplary damages be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is

not less than three (3) times the amount of Plaintiffs actual damages.

BUSINESS DISPARAGEMENT

26. Plaintiff incorporates each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set
forth fully herein.

27. Defendants published disparaging words about Plaintiffs economic interests.

28. The words were false.

29. Defendants published the words with malice.

30. Defendants published the words without privilege.

31. The publication caused special damages.

32. As a result, Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by Defendants' conduct.

33. On information and belief, the wrongful acts of Defendants set forth in this Cause

of Action were done maliciously, oppressively, and with the intent to harm Plaintiff, and Plaintiff

is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages to be ascertained according to proof, which is

appropriate to punish and set an example of Defendants. Accordingly, Plaintiff respectfully

requests that exemplary damages be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is not less than

three (3) times the amount of Plaintiffs actual damages.

INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS

34. Plaintiff incorporates each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

35. The Defendants are fully aware of the facts that support this claim. The Defendants'

conduct was extreme and outrageous in character, and so extreme in degree, as to go beyond all

possible bounds of decency, as to be regarded as atrocious, utterly intolerable, despicable, and the

bottom of depravity in a civilized community.

36. The Defendants' conduct proximately caused Plaintiff damages in that it caused
Plaintiff to suffer severe emotional distress. In particular, the Defendants' conduct was the direct

and proximate cause of Plaintiffs severe mental pain and anguish. In addition, the Plaintiff

continues to suffer from the actions of the Defendants.

3 7. In addition to severe emotional distress, the Plaintiff has suffered and will continue

to suffer, additional damages as a proximate result of the Defendants' conduct in that, in all

reasonable probability, Plaintiff will continue to suffer this mental pain and anguish for a long time

into the future - most likely the rest of his life. The conduct of the Defendants were maliciously

negligent and/or grossly negligent, and fraudulent so as to entitle Plaintiff to recover exemplary

damages. In this connection, Plaintiff will show that as a result of Defendants' conduct, Plaintiff

has suffered losses of time and other expenses, including attorney's fees incurred in the

investigation and prosecution of this action. Accordingly, Plaintiff asks that exemplary damages

be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is not less than three (3) times the amount of

Plaintiffs actual damages.

NEGLIGENT MISREPRESENTATION

38. The Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though

set fully herein.

39. By reason of the Plaintiffs reliance on the representations and fraudulent

concealment of material facts by the Defendants, the Plaintiff has been damaged.

40. The Defendants employed a scheme and common course of conduct to defraud the

Plaintiff. The misrepresentations and concealment of facts by Defendants were material.

41. On information and belief, the Defendants knew the misrepresentations and

concealment of facts set forth herein were false.

42. Alternatively, the Defendants acted with reckless disregard whether the
representations made by Defendants were true. The Plaintiff relied upon the misrepresentations,

lies, and the facts concealed by Defendants. The Plaintiffs reliance on these representations and

concealment of facts was reasonable and justifiable.

43. The Plaintiff has suffered losses because of the wrongful conduct of the Defendants.

CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT INTENTIONAL TORTS SET FORTH HEREINABOVE

44. The Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though

set fully herein.

45. Each Defendant was a member of a combination of two or more persons.

46. The object of the combination was to accomplish an unlawful purpose or a lawful

purpose by unlawful means.

4 7. The members had a meeting of the minds on the object or course of action.

48. One or more of the members committed an unlawful, overt act to further the object

or course of action.

49. The plaintiff suffered injury as a proximate result of the wrongful act.

50. As a result, Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by Defendants' conduct.

51. On information and belief, the wrongful acts of Defendants set forth in this Cause

of Action were done maliciously, oppressively, and with the intent to harm Plaintiff, and Plaintiff

is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages to be ascertained according to proof, which is

appropriate to punish and set an example of Defendants. Accordingly, Plaintiff respectfully

requests that exemplary damages be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is not less than

three (3) times the amount of Plaintiff's actual damages.
 52. Plaintiff further respectfully requests that all members of the conspiracy be held

jointly and severally liable for all acts done by any of them in furtherance of the combination.

Such joint and several liability is respectfully requested to extend beyond the wrongdoer to

include those who have merely planned, assisted, or encouraged the wrongdoer's acts.

AIDING AND ABETTING THE COMMISSION
OF INTENTIONAL TORTS SET FORTH HEREIN

53. A primary actor committed a tort.

54. Defendants had knowledge that the primary actor's conduct constituted a tort.

55. Defendants had the intent to assist the primary actor in committing the tort.

56. Defendants gave the primary actor assistance or encouragement.

57. Defendants' assistance or encouragement was a substantial factor in causing the

tort.

58. As a result, Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by Defendants' conduct.

59. Plaintiff further respectfully requests that the primary actor and all Defendants

who had the intent to assist and who assisted or encouraged the primary actor be held jointly and

severally liable for all acts done. Such joint and several liability is respectfully requested to

extend beyond the wrongdoer to include those who have merely planned, assisted, or encouraged

the wrongdoer's acts.

ATTORNEYS FEES

60. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein. Request is made for all costs and reasonable and necessary attorneys' fees

incurred by or on behalf of Plaintiff, and all fees necessary in the event of an appeal of this cause
to the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court of Texas, as the Court deems equitable and just.

CONDITIONS PRECEDENT

61. All conditions precedent to the Plaintiffs right of recovery have been performed,

have occurred, or have been waived.

NO WAIVER

62. By filing this lawsuit, Plaintiff does not waive or release any rights, claims, causes

of action, or defenses, or make any election of remedies that they have, but expressly reserve such

rights, claims, causes of action, and defenses.

PRAYER

WHEREFORE, PREMISES CONSIDERED, Plaintiff respectfully requests that the

Defendants be cited to appear and answer, as required by law, and that Plaintiff have the

following relief:

• Judgment against the Defendants for pecuniary, economic, non-economic,

special, general, consequential, and incidental damages in excess of

$1,000,000.00;

• Actual damages in the amount determined to have been sustained by the Plaintiff;

• Compensatory damages;

• Pre- and Post-Judgment Interest;

• Costs of this lawsuit, including reasonable attorney's fees, experts' fees, and other

disbursements; and

• Such other and further relief, at law or in equity, to which the Plaintiff may show

himself to be justly entitled.
Dated, September 29, 2017

Respectfully submitted,

JAMES S. BELL, PC

Isl James S. Bell
By:

James S. Bell
James S. Bell P.C.
State Bar No. 24049314
james@jamesbellpc.com
2808 Cole Ave.
Dallas, TX 75204
(214) 698-9000 (Telephone)
ATTORNEY PLAINTIFF

CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE WITH LOCAL RULE 1.06: RELATED CASES

On information and belief, this case probably requires transfer pursuant to Local Rule 1.06.
The related case was filed under Cause No. DC-15-14415; BRADEN RICHARD POWER, et al vs.
CRAIG PATRICK POWER, et al. in the 134th District Court of Dallas County, Texas.

' I I •
TAB B
 FILED
DALLAS COUNTY
10/26/2017 6:21 PM
FELICIA PITRE
DISTRICT CLERK

NO. DC-17-13448

BRANDON MCCARTHY, § IN THE DISTRICT COURT
§
Plaintiff, §
§
v. § DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
§
JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10, §
§
Defendants. § 134th JUDICIAL DISTRICT

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION

TO THE HONORABLE JUDGE OF SAID COURT:

COMES NOW, Plaintiff BRANDON MCCARTHY ("Plaintiff'), and files this,

Plaintiffs Original Petition against Defendants JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10 ("Defendants") and,

for cause, would respectfully show unto this Honorable Court as follows:

NATURE OF THE ACTION

1. This suit is the vehicle through which the Plaintiff can recover against the

outlandish, brazen acts of the Defendants, morally bankrupt individuals unlawfully tarnishing the

reputation of a highly decorated former Assistant United States Attorney. The Plaintiff brings

this claim for defamation and tortious interference with contract/prospective business advantage.

2. Plaintiff alleges that as a proximate result of the tortious and willful conduct of

the Defendants, he has suffered financial damages. The Defendants have committed

extraordinary acts of dishonesty and deceit towards Plaintiff. Therefore, the Plaintiff seeks all

compensatory damages allowed under Texas law for the injuries caused by their tortious acts and

omissions.

DISCOVERY CONTROL PLAN

3. Discovery shall be conducted under Level 3 pursuant to Rule 190.03 of the

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page I of 11
TEXAS RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE.

PARTIES

4. Plaintiff BRANDON MCCARTHY can be served by and through his undersigned

counsel of record.

5. Defendant JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10 are unknown at this time but the Plaintiff will

supplement with the individual names of the Defendants.

6. This Honorable Court has jurisdiction over this matter, as the amount of the dispute

is within the jurisdictional limits of this Honorable Court. Venue is proper in Dallas County, Texas,

as it is a county in which a substantial part of the events or omissions giving rise to the claims

described herein occurred. This case is not subject to removal.

7. At this time, the Plaintiff is seeking more than $1,000,000.00 in damages against

the Defendants, jointly and severally, and an expedited trial by jury. This case is not subject to

removal to federal court

FACTUAL BACKGROUND

8. This action arises out of Defendant's blatant, egregious, and inequitable trespasses

to, and violations of Plaintiff, Plaintiffs rights and interests, as well as numerous breaches of duties

Defendants owed to Plaintiff. Defendants' fraud, negligence, and intentional torts against Plaintiff,

includes the infliction of severe physical and emotional hardship upon the Plaintiff, and the

intentional infliction of harm to Plaintiff. In addition, upon information and belief, Defendants

knowingly, recklessly, or negligently pursued Plaintiff with tactics designed to deceive, coerce,

harass, or force Plaintiff to engage in dealings with the Defendants.

9. The Defendants have knowingly, recklessly, and/or negligently engaged, or have

allowed themselves to be engaged, in various deceptive techniques and trade practices designed to

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 2of11
mislead the Plaintiff. Defendants and/or their principals, agents, franchisors, and employees have

knowingly, recklessly, and/or negligently misrepresented the true nature of their dealings with the

Plaintiff and knowingly, recklessly, or negligently omitted the disadvantages of associating with

the Defendants. In addition, upon information and belief, Defendants knowingly, recklessly, or

negligently pursued Plaintiff with tactics designed to deceive, coerce, harass, or force Plaintiff to

engage in dealings with the Defendants.

10. Plaintiff brings this action to remedy the harm that Defendant has caused him: (1)

by falsely and fraudulently inducing him to enter into and execute contracts; (2) by fraudulently

inducing him to enter into and execute contracts under duress; (3) by committing numerous

intentional torts against him including, but not limited to, numerous common law torts; (4) by

inflicting severe and intentional emotional distress; (5) by stalking, harassing, and threatening

Plaintiff; (6) by acting negligently toward Plaintiff; (7) by acting recklessly with wanton disregard

to the rights of Plaintiff; (8) by making fraudulent and negligent misrepresentations to Plaintiff and

others; (9) by failing to disclose material information to Plaintiff; and; (10) by breaching fiduciary

duties to Plaintiff.

CAUSES OF ACTION

TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE WITH CONTRACTS AND/OR PROSPECTIVE
BUSINESS RELATIONS

11. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

12. The Defendant acted with the intent to interfere with existing contracts as well as

to prevent execution of prospective contracts. The Plaintiff has lost the opportunity to enter into

several contracts as result of the interference by the Defendant. On information and belief, the

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 3of11
wrongful acts of the Defendant set forth in this Count were done maliciously, oppressively, and

with the intent to harm the Plaintiff, and the Plaintiff is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages

to be ascertained according to proof, which is appropriate to punish and set an example of the

Defendant. Accordingly, the Plaintiff respectfully request that exemplary damages be awarded

against the Defendant in a sum that is not less than three (3) times the amount of Plaintiffs actual

damages.

NEGLIGENCE AND GROSS NEGLIGENCE

13. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

14. The Defendants owed and still owes duties to the Plaintiff. The Defendants

breached these duties which proximately caused damages to the Plaintiff.

15. In addition, Plaintiff will show that the Defendants' acts and omissions, when

viewed objectively from the Defendants' viewpoint, involved an extreme degree of risk,

considering the magnitude and potential harm to the Plaintiff.

16. And, the Defendants had actual, subjective awareness of the risk, but still proceeded

with their scheme with a conscious indifference to the rights, safety or welfare of the Plaintiff.

17. As a proximate result of the Defendants' negligence and gross negligence, the

Plaintiff has been damaged and he seeks to recover all actual, consequential, incidental, and

exemplary damages.

DEFAMATION, SLANDER, AND LIBEL

18. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 4 ofll
 19. The Defendants published false statements that negatively affected the Plaintiff.

No privilege, absolute or conditional, attaches to these statements.

20. The Defendants made these statements to third parties without any legitimate

interest in the information contained therein.

21. The Defendants' false statements and omissions caused damages to the Plaintiff.

22. These statements are unambiguous and defamatory or, alternatively, defamatory by

innuendo or implication.

23 . Each of the above-referenced acts and omissions, single or in combination with

others, constituted defamation, libel, and slander as well as defamation, libel, and slander per se

and caused the damages suffered by the Plaintiff.

24. As a result, the Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by the defamation/slander.

25. On information and belief, the wrongful acts of the Defendants set forth in this

Count were done maliciously, oppressively, and with the intent to harm the Plaintiff, and the

Plaintiff is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages to be ascertained according to proof, which

is appropriate to punish and set an example of the Defendants. Accordingly, the Plaintiff

respectfully requests that exemplary damages be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is

not less than three (3) times the amount of Plaintiff's actual damages.

BUSINESS DISPARAGEMENT

26. Plaintiff incorporates each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

27. Defendants published disparaging words about Plaintiff's economic interests.

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 5of11
 28. The words were false.

29. Defendants published the words with malice.

30. Defendants published the words without privilege.

31 . The publication caused special damages.

32. As a result, Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by Defendants' conduct.

33. On information and belief, the wrongful acts of Defendants set forth in this Cause

of Action were done maliciously, oppressively, and with the intent to harm Plaintiff, and Plaintiff

is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages to be ascertained according to proof, which is

appropriate to punish and set an example of Defendants. Accordingly, Plaintiff respectfully

requests that exemplary damages be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is not less than

three (3) times the amount of Plaintiff's actual damages.

INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS

34. Plaintiff incorporates each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein.

35. The Defendants are fully aware of the facts that support this claim. The Defendants'

conduct was extreme and outrageous in character, and so extreme in degree, as to go beyond all

possible bounds of decency, as to be regarded as atrocious, utterly intolerable, despicable, and the

bottom of depravity in a civilized community.

36. The Defendants' conduct proximately caused Plaintiff damages in that it caused

Plaintiff to suffer severe emotional distress. In pa11icular, the Defendants' conduct was the direct

and proximate cause of Plaintiff's severe mental pain and anguish. In addition, the Plaintiff

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 6of11
continues to suffer from the actions of the Defendants.

37. In addition to severe emotional distress, the Plaintiff has suffered and will continue

to suffer, additional damages as a proximate result of the Defendants' conduct in that, in all

reasonable probability, Plaintiff will continue to suffer this mental pain and anguish for a long time

into the future - most likely the rest of his life. The conduct of the Defendants were maliciously

negligent and/or grossly negligent, and fraudulent so as to entitle Plaintiff to recover exemplary

damages. In this connection, Plaintiff will show that as a result of Defendants' conduct, Plaintiff

has suffered losses of time and other expenses, including attorney's fees incurred in the

investigation and prosecution of this action. Accordingly, Plaintiff asks that exemplary damages

be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is not less than three (3) times the amount of

Plaintiffs actual damages.

NEGLIGENT MISREPRESENTATION

38. The Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though

set fully herein.

39. By reason of the Plaintiffs reliance on the representations and fraudulent

concealment of material facts by the Defendants, the Plaintiff has been damaged.

40. The Defendants employed a scheme and common course of conduct to defraud the

Plaintiff The misrepresentations and concealment of facts by Defendants were material.

41. On information and belief, the Defendants knew the misrepresentations and

concealment of facts set forth herein were false.

42. Alternatively, the Defendants acted with reckless disregard whether the

representations made by Defendants were true. The Plaintiff relied upon the misrepresentations,

lies, and the facts concealed by Defendants. The Plaintiffs reliance on these representations and

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 7of11
concealment of facts was reasonable and justifiable.

43. The Plaintiff has suffered losses because of the wrongful conduct of the Defendants.

CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT INTENTIONAL TORTS SET FORTH HEREINABOVE

44. The Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though

set fully herein.

45. Each Defendant was a member of a combination of two or more persons.

46. The object of the combination was to accomplish an unlawful purpose or a lawful

purpose by unlawful means.

47. The members had a meeting of the minds on the object or course of action.

48. One or more of the members committed an unlawful, overt act to further the object

or course of action.

49. The plaintiff suffered injury as a proximate result of the wrongful act.

50. As a result, Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by Defendants' conduct.

51. On information and belief, the wrongful acts of Defendants set forth in this Cause

of Action were done maliciously, oppressively, and with the intent to harm Plaintiff, and Plaintiff

is entitled to punitive and exemplary damages to be ascertained according to proof, which is

appropriate to punish and set an example of Defendants. Accordingly, Plaintiff respectfully

requests that exemplary damages be awarded against the Defendants in a sum that is not less than

three (3) times the amount of Plaintiffs actual damages.

52. Plaintiff further respectfully requests that all members of the conspiracy be held

jointly and severally liable for all acts done by any of them in furtherance of the combination.

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 8of11
Such joint and several liability is respectfully requested to extend beyond the wrongdoer to

include those who have merely planned, assisted, or encouraged the wrongdoer's acts.

AIDING AND ABETTING THE COMMISSION
OF INTENTIONAL TORTS SET FORTH HEREIN

53. A primary actor committed a tort.

54. Defendants had knowledge that the primary actor's conduct constituted a tort.

55. Defendants had the intent to assist the primary actor in committing the tort.

56. Defendants gave the primary actor assistance or encouragement.

57. Defendants' assistance or encouragement was a substantial factor in causing the

tort.

58. As a result, Plaintiff has been damaged and seeks to recover all actual,

consequential, and incidental damages caused by Defendants' conduct.

59. Plaintiff further respectfully requests that the primary actor and all Defendants

who had the intent to assist and who assisted or encouraged the primary actor be held jointly and

severally liable for all acts done. Such joint and several liability is respectfully requested to

extend beyond the wrongdoer to include those who have merely planned, assisted, or encouraged

the wrongdoer' s acts.

ATTORNEYS FEES

60. Plaintiff re-alleges each and every one of the foregoing paragraphs as though set

forth fully herein. Request is made for all costs and reasonable and necessary attorneys' fees

incurred by or on behalf of Plaintiff, and all fees necessary in the event of an appeal of this cause

to the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court of Texas, as the Court deems equitable and just.

CONDITIONS PRECEDENT

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 9of11
 61 . All conditions precedent to the Plaintiffs right of recovery have been performed,

have occurred, or have been waived.

NO WAIVER

62. By filing this lawsuit, Plaintiff does not waive or release any rights, claims, causes

of action, or defenses, or make any election of remedies that they have, but expressly reserve such

rights, claims, causes of action, and defenses.

PRAYER

WHEREFORE, PREMISES CONSIDERED, Plaintiff respectfully requests that the

Defendants be cited to appear and answer, as required by law, and that Plaintiff have the

following relief:

• Judgment against the Defendants for pecumary, economic, non-economic,

special, general, consequential, and incidental damages in excess of

$1,000,000.00;

• Actual damages in the amount determined to have been sustained by the Plaintiff;

• Compensatory damages;

• Pre- and Post-Judgment Interest;

• Costs of this lawsuit, including reasonable attorney's fees, experts' fees, and other

disbursements; and

• Such other and further relief, at law or in equity, to which the Plaintiff may show

himself to be justly entitled.

PLArNTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page IO of 11
Dated, October 26th, 2017

Respectfully submitted,

JAMES S. BELL, PC

Isl James S. Bell
By:

James S. Bell
James S. Bell P.C.
State Bar No. 24049314
james@jamesbellpc.com
2808 Cole Ave.
Dallas, TX 75204
(214) 698-9000 (Telephone)
ATTORNEY FOR PLAINTIFF

PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION Page 11 ofll
STATE OF TEXAS }
COUNrY OF DALLAS
I, FELICIA PITRE, Clark of the 01~trl ct of Dallas County,
Te"as, do hereby ct rtliy th\h I h .vJ comnamcl •his Instrument
to · ea truu Eintl correct cony of the or lgtnal es appears on
r<....Jrd In my r1'co.
GIVCN ll\JOCR MY l'J.1.t~ ~A .... SF ~- l)",.f s JI j ".JUrt, at office
In oat!:1G, lcxa~. thl il~ yo· .l)~ AD.~
FELICIA r1T.1E, OlJ 1.1l r ERK
DAL COUNTY, •.-,. -
By, alt Deputy
TAB C
 FILED
DALLAS COUNTY
, . 11/20/2017 1 :08 PM
FELICIA PITRE
DISTRICT CLERK

CAUSE NO. DC-17-13448

BRANDON MCCARTHY, § IN THE DISTRICT COURT
Plaintiff, §
§
§
v. § 134TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
§
§
JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10, §
Defendants. § DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY FROM WITNESS
RYAN REYNOLDS

Plaintiff Brandon McCarthy ("Plaintiff' or "McCarthy") serves this Motion to Compel

Deposition Testimony from Ryan Reynolds and would respectfully show the Court the following:

SUM AND SUBSTANCE OF THIS MOTION

1. Plaintiff respectfully seeks an order from this Court compelling Ryan Reynolds to

appear again for his deposition and answer questions that he refused to answer at his deposition on

November 10, 2017, because of baseless assertions of attorney-client privilege made by Reynolds'

attorney at that deposition, David Bell.

2. Plaintiff has attached as Exhibit 1 to this Motion a rough draft of the transcript of

that deposition with the specific questions Plaintiff seeks to compel answers to highlighted in

yellow.

3. Those questions generally concern the following subject matter:

a. When Reynolds first retained David Bell as his counsel.

b. When Reynolds first met with David Bell as his counsel.

c. The general terms of David Bell's representation of Ryan Reynolds (i.e.,

rate, fees to be charged, scope of representation).
 d. The identity of the person or persons who referred Ryan Reynolds to David

Bell.

e. The start and end date of any alleged attorney-client relationship between

Ryan Reynolds and Cameron Smith and/or James Rolfe and the scope of

such representation(s).

f. The terms of any Cameron Smith's legal representation of Ryan Reynolds.

(e.g., rate, fees to be charged, scope of representation).

g. The terms of James Rolfe's legal representation of Ryan Reynolds. (e.g.,

rate, fees to be charged, scope of representation).

h. The substance of communications between Ryan Reynolds and James Rolfe

and/or Cameron Smith outside of the attorney-client relationship.

1. Whether Cameron Smith and/or James Rolfe have ever hired Ryan

Reynolds to perform and work for them and the substance of that work and

identity of any client for whom that work was performed.

4. The law in Texas is clear that the attorney-client privilege does not apply to these

categories of questions. Reynolds' counsel's assertion of privilege as to these questions was

baseless and has served to only delay the discovery process and increase Plaintiff's costs in seeking

the truth. Plaintiff therefore requests that Reynolds and his counsel pay the fees and costs that

Plaintiff has had to incur to bring this Motion.

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS - Page 2
 THE FACTS

Unknown Defendants Are Engaging in an Illegal Smear Campaign Against Former United
States Attorney Brandon McCarthy and Ryan Reynolds Likely Knows
WhoTbev Are

5. Plaintiff McCarthy is former Assistant United States Attorney for the Northern

District of Texas with a sterling reputation in the legal community. However, in the past year, one

or more individuals have engaged in and continue to engage in a smear campaign against

McCarthy by making intentionally false representations of purported fact to various people with

the intent of harming his reputation and professional standing and painting him in a false light.

Plaintiff has filed this lawsuit in order to determine who those people (named as Jane/John Does

1-10 in this suit) are and hold them legally accountable for their actions.

6. Ryan Reynolds ("Reynolds") is a convicted federal felon who has flouted the laws

of this country and disobeyed Court orders. Indeed, the Honorable Judge Boyle of the United

States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division, has previously found

Reynolds in contempt of Court for failing to obey an asset-freeze order.

7. On information and belief, Reynolds has been used by a tool of these John/Jane

Does to spread the false information about Defendant. For that reason, it is critical that Plaintiff

depose Reynolds to learn if he has in fact been working for these John/Jane Does and to learn their

identities. 1 Accordingly, Plaintiffs counsel issued and had served a subpoena requiring Reynolds

to appear for his deposition on November 8.

1
Because the person or persons engaging in this smear campaign are not yet known, they have been identified in this
lawsuit as "John/Jane Does 1-10." On information and belief, this smear campaign may be related to a highly
con tentious case pending in the 134th District Court for wh ich 'f laintiff acts as counsel for one of the parties. For that
reason, the case was transferred to the 134th after filing. Reynolds' allegation that such transfer was a "fraud on the
court" is as baseless as it is outrageous.

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS - Page 3
 Reynolds and Others are Trying to Block Discovery of Relevant and Discoverable
Information Concerning the Smear Campaign and the
Identities of the John/Jane Doe Defendants

8. But Reynolds and/or whomever he is conspiring with to harm Brandon McCarthy

continues to try to thwart Plaintiffs attempts to determine the identities of these John/Jane Does.

9. First, in response to Plaintiffs subpoena, Reynolds filed a document titled

"Objections and Motion for Protective Order" regarding that subpoena, and Reynolds refused to

appear for his deposition on November 8. Reynolds himself signed the Motion and represented

that he was appearing "pro se."

10. After a hearing on November 8, this court ordered that Reynolds appear for his

deposition on November 10.

11. At that deposition, it came to light through Reynolds testimony that the Objections

and Motion for Protective Order (the "Motion") made material misrepresentations to this Court,

including:

a. The Motion falsely represented that Reynolds was appearing pro se. Reynolds

testified at his deposition that an attorney had actually drafted that Motion for

Protective Order and he identified that attorney as David Bell. (See Ex. 1 at page

46.)

b. The Motion falsely represented that "Movant is a witness against the Plaintiff in

another matter(s), and Plaintiff and his counsel are seeking to intimidate the

witnesses against him in the other matter." Reynolds testified at his deposition that

he had no knowledge of any "other matter" in which he is a witness against Plaintiff.

(Id. at page 59, lines 20-23.)

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS - Page 4
 12. Plaintiff is filing a separate Motion for Sanctions against Reynolds' attorney David

Bell for filing the baseless and intentionally misleading motion with the Court in attempt to block

the Reynolds' deposition.

13. However, this Motion deals with Reynolds and his counsel's obstructionism at the

deposition itself.

ARGUMENT AND AUTHORITIES

Reynolds Cannot Refuse to Answer Questions Regarding His Communications with
James Rolfe and Cameron Smith that
Without Establishing Thev Concern His Criminal Case or Custody Dispute

14. At Reynolds' deposition on November I 0, Plaintiffs counsel asked Reynolds

numerous questions regarding attorneys Cameron Smith and Jim Rolfe to determine if they might

be the Jane/John Does that are the subject of this suit. However, Reynolds' counsel refused to let

Reynolds answer any of these questions on grounds of attorney-client privilege because Smith and

Rolfe are "attorneys." In fact, Reynolds' counsel stated that he would not let Reynolds answer any

questions concerning any attorneys. (See Ex. 1, page 12.)

15. Of course, as this court is well-aware, a communication is not privileged merely

because it is with an attorney, even if it is a communication between an attorney and his/her client.

See Huie v. DeShazo, 922 S.W.2d 920, 926 (Tex. 1996); Borden, Inc. v. Valdez, 773 S.W.2d 718,

720 (Tex. App.--Corpus Christi 1989, orig. proceeding) (not all communications between a client

and an attorney are privileged, and the burden is on the party resisting discovery to show that the

communication was, in fact, protected by the privilege).

16. The elements of the attorney-client privilege under Texas law are: ( 1) a confidential

communication; (2) made for the purpose of facilitating the rendition of professional legal services;

(3) between or amongst the client, lawyer, and their representatives; and (4) the privilege has not

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RY AN REYNOLDS - Page 5
been waived. See TEX. R. EVID. 503(b)(l); Navigant Consulting, Inc. v. Wilkinson, 220 F.R.D.

467, 473 (N.D. Tex. 2004) (Kaplan, J.) (applying Texas law of privilege). These elements can be

established by affidavit or live testimony. Seibu Corp. v. KPMG LLP, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 906,

at *1 (N.D. Tex. Jan. 18, 2002) (applying Texas law of privilege).

17. The burden is on the party asserting the privilege to demonstrate how each

document or communication satisfies these elements. Navigant Consulting, Inc. v. Wilkinson, 220

F.R.D. at 473 (citing Hodges, Grant & Kaufmann v. United States, 768 F.2d 719, 721 (5th Cir.

1985)) (applying Texas law of privilege). Courts generally construe the privilege narrowly because

an assertion of privilege inhibits the search for truth. Id. A general allegation of privilege is

insufficient to meet the burden. Id.

18. Here, Reynolds testified that Smith had only acted as his attorney concerning

a child custody dispute and Rolfe represented him concerning his criminal case, both of

which have been resolved. However, Reynolds did not establish that he has any ongoing attorney-

client relationship with either Smith or Rolfe or that these communications occurred in the

furtherance of providing legal services. Therefore, communications between Reynolds and Smith

and/or Rolfe that do not concern their legal representation of him are not privileged and Reynolds

and his attorney cannot assert that privilege as a basis for not answering questions regarding those

communications.

19. Reynolds therefore respectfully requests that the Court order Reynolds to re-appear

for his deposition and answer questions concerning the substance of communications between

Ryan Reynolds and James Rolfe and/or Cameron Smith that do not concern the rendition of legal

services in relation to Reynolds' custody dispute or criminal case, i.e., communications that fall

outside of their alleged attorney-client relationship.

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS-Page 6
 Reynolds Cannot Refuse to Answer Questions Concerning the Factual Circumstances
Surrounding His Attorney-Client Relationships with
David Bell, Cameron Smith, and James Rolfe

20. Reynolds' attorney instructed Reynolds not answer any questions regarding the

factual circumstances of Reynolds' retention of himself (David Bell), Cameron Smith or James

Rolfe as attorneys. Specifically, Reynolds' counsel David Bell would not let Reynolds answer

when Reynolds had first consulted with and retained any of these attorneys, the fee arrangement

with any of these attorneys, or who referred Reynolds to David Bell as counsel. David Bell's

assertion of privilege as to these questions is baseless.

21. Texas law is clear that this information is not subject to the attorney-client privilege.

As on Texas court stated:

Under the great weight of authority, information concerning the factual
circumstances surrounding the attorney-client relationship has no privilege, at least
as long as disclosure does not threaten to reveal the substance of any confidential
communications. Therefore, the attorney-client privilege does not encompass such
nonconfidential matters as the terms and conditions of an attorney's employment,
the purposes for which an attorney has been engaged, or any of the external
trappings of the relationship between the parties.");

See Duval County Ranch Co. v. Alamo Lumber Co., 663 S.W.2d 627, 634 (Tex. Ct. App.-

Houston 1988): see also Goode, Wellborn and Shariat, 2A Courtroom Handbook on Texas

Evidence 456 (2012) ("Texas courts have followed the widely accepted common-law rule that the

identity of the client and fee arrangements ordinarily are not shielded from disclosure.

22. Similarly, "by whom and when" a client was referred to a particular lawyer for

representation is considered a factual circumstance surrounding the attorney-client relationship

that is not protected from disclosure by privilege under Texas law. See Alpert v. Riley, 2009 U.S.

Dist. LEXIS 36612 at *41 (S.D. Tex. Apr. 30, 2009) (holding the circumstances surrounding

client's attorney-client relationship with law firm Scardino and Courtney, including by whom and

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS - Page 7
when client was referred to Scardino & Courtney, was discoverable and not privileged under Texas

law).

23. Reynolds therefore seeks an order from this Comi compelling Reynolds to appear

for deposition within the next 2 weeks at a mutually agreed date and time and to answer questions

concerning:

a. When Reynolds first retained David Bell as his counsel.

b. When Reynolds first met with David Bell as his counsel.

c. The general terms of David Bell's representation of Ryan Reynolds (i.e.,

rate, fees to be charged, scope of representation).

d. The identity of the person or persons who referred Ryan Reynolds to David

Bell.

e. The start and end date of any alleged attorney-client relationship between

Ryan Reynolds and Cameron Smith and/or James Rolfe and the scope of

such representation(s).

f. The terms of any Cameron Smith's legal representation of Ryan Reynolds.

(e.g., rate, fees to be charged, scope of representation).

g. The terms of James Rolfe's legal representation of Ryan Reynolds. (e.g.,

rate, fees to be charged, scope of representation).

h. The substance of communications between Ryan Reynolds and James Rolfe

and/or Cameron Smith outside of the attorney-client relationship.

i. Whether Cameron Smith and/or James Rolfe have ever hired Ryan

Reynolds to perform and work for them and the substance of that work and

identity of any client for whom that work was performed.

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS - Page 8
 CONCLUSION AND PRAYER

For the foregoing reasons, Plaintiff respectfully seeks an order from this Court granting the

relief requested herein. Plaintiff further requests any other relief in law or equity to which he may

be justly entitled.

Respectfully submitted,

JAMES s. BELL, P.C.
2808 Cole Avenue
Dallas, Texas 75204
Tel: (214) 668-9000

By:lsl James S. Bell
James S. Bell
State Bar No. 24049314
jnmes@ jame beJlpc.com
Attorney for Petitioner

Certificate of Service

I hereby certify that I have served a copy of this document on all counsel of record in
compliance with the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure.

Isl James S. Bell
James S. Bell

PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS - Page 9
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF11

1 NO. DC-17-13448
2 BRANDON MCCARTHY ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
)
3 vs. ) 134TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
)
4 )
JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10 ) DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
5
6
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
7
ORAL DEPOSITION OF
8
RYAN REYNOLDS
9
NOVEMBER 10, 2017
10
Volume No.
11
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
12
13
14 ORAL DEPOSITION of RYAN REYNOLDS, produced
15 as a witness at the instance of the Plaintiff, and
16 duly sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered
17 cause on the 10th of November, 2017, from
18 Time to Time, before Sherry Fol chert, CSR, in and -for
19 the State of Texas, reported by machine
20 shorthand, at the offices of David Bell, 8350 Meadow
21 Road, Suite 186, Dallas, Texas, pursuant to the Texas
22 Rules of Civil Procedure.
23
24
25

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF12

1 A P P EA RA NC ES
2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
3 James S. Bell
JAMES S. BELL, P.C.
4
FOR THE WITNESS:
5
David Bell
6
ALSO PRESENT:
7
Brandon McCarthy
8 Kelley Cash
Matt Segedy
9

10
11

12
13

14

15

16

17
18

19

20
21
22
23
24

25

EXHlBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF13

1 INDEX
2 PAGE
3 Appearances . 2

4 Stipulations. 4

5 RYAN REYNOLDS
Examination by Mr. James Bell. 5
6
Signature and Changes . Pg
7
Reporter's Certificate. Pg
8
EXHIBITS
9
NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
10
1 Fifth Amendment Invocation
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF14

1 AGREEMENTS
2 It is hereby agreed by and between the parties
3 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that
4 any and all objections to any question or answer herein,
5 except as to the form of the question and responsiveness
6 of the answer, may be made upon the offering of this
7 deposition in evidence upon the trial of this cause with
8 the same force and effect as though the witness were
9 present in person and testifying from the witness stand.
10 It is further agreed by and between the parties
11 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that
12 this deposition may be signed before any notary public
13 in and for the State of Texas, but if the original
14 deposition has not been signed by the witness and
15 returned by the time of the trial or any hearing in the
16 case, the unsigned original or a copy thereof may be
17 returned into Court and used with the same force and
18 effect as though all requirements of the rules and
19 statutes with reference to signature and return had been
20 fully complied with.
21
22
23
24

25

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF15

1 P R0 C E E DI NGS
2 RYAN REYNOLDS,
3 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. BELL:
6 Q. Sir, will you introduce yourself to the folks
7 on the jury, as well as the Court?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Excuse me, Counsel. First
9 identify yourself and everybody that you've brought with
10 you today.
11 MR. JAMES BELL: My name is James Bel 1 . I
12 have my client here and two folks that work for me.
13 Matt Segedy and Kelley Cash.
14 MR. DAVID BELL: And your client is who?
15 MR. JAMES BELL: Brandon McCarthy.
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. And Matt Segedy
17 works for you, I believe, as of today, correct?
18 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm not here to answer
19 your questions. I'm telling you he works for me.
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Well, I'm going to
21 exclude -- ask that he be excluded because he's I
22 anticipate he's going to be a witness in these
23 proceedings. So if you insist on him staying here, I'm
24 not waiving that objection. Just placing you on notice
25 that we'll move to strike your use of this deposition if

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF16

1 he stays in this deposition.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir, can you state your
3 name for the -- strike that.
4 Can you introduce yourself to the folks on
5 the jury as well as the Court?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Let the record show that
7 you refuse to acknowledge my comment or to respond to my
8 comment. Pl ease proceed at your own risk and peri 1.
9 THE WITNESS: My name is Ryan Reynolds.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And, Mr. Reynolds,
11 you're convicted a felony, true?
12 A. I am.
13 Q. And have you had your deposition taken before?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. How many times?
16 A. I don't remember.
17 Q. Approximately how many times?
18 A. I don't remember.
19 Q. Is it more than once?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. More than five times?
22 A. I don't recall.
23 Q. You don't recall whether or not you've been
24 deposed more than five times?
25 A. I do not.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFl OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF17

1 a. Okay. And you were served with a subpoena to
2 appear for your deposition last Wednesday , correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 a. You id~;t~d~ 1c:ra1! appear, '~0)Prr ect?

5 A. Le i: tITa se e ')Nhera ~ l:'i a U- w~as :e xacfl y. No , l was

7 Q. Okay. Wheh dio David Bell become your lawyer?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Object. I'm n0t goi n!!:} to
9 allow you to answer any questions about my
10 repr&sentation of you.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir , I'm not asking you to
12 get in e01ttl1U1Llhieati0ns with y0ur lawyer. V.Jllilein did y:o u
1

13 retain Mr. Bell for services?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him
15 to answer any ~uestioh that might invade the
16 attorney/client ptiVilege.
17 Q. C~V M~ . J~MES BELL) So yo~·re g~ing te refwse
18 to answer --
19 A. On the advice on my counsel.
20 a. So you'~e going to refuse to answer my question
21 about when you retained Mr. Bell to become your lawyer?
22 A. I'm going to object on the advice of my
23 counsel .
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES ·BELL) Are you going to refuse --
25 MR. JAMES BELL: Objection; nonresponsive.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRAF18

1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
2 answer my question about when you retained Mr. Bell as
3 your lawyer?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Counsel, you're asking for
5 a legal conclusion. I'm not going to allow my client to
6 answer that question.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir, are you going to
8 refuse to answer my question about when you retained
9 Mr. Bell to become your lawyer?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Again, you're asking for a
11 legal conclusion. I'm not going to allow him to object
12 (sic). Objection; form.
13 MR. JAMES BELL: So that's an objection
14 form or are you just --
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Both.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So are you going to refuse
17 to answer my question about -- strike that.
18 When did you first meet Mr. Bell?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him
20 to answer questions about me or my representation of
21 him. So ask any other question you want. Go ahead.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're going to
23 refuse just so that I have
24 MR. JAMES BELL: Make sure you certify
25 these.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10 , 2017 - ROUGH DRAF19

1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to refuse to
2 answer my q ~ e ~ tion about when Mr. Bell be~a~e y0ur
3 lawyer. Would that be a true statement?
4 MR. DAVIO BELL: I advise the client not to
5 answer any questions about my representation.
6 MEL JJ Ari1;.&s B1E l ~: l need t -o· ge t a 1J'i'e,f 1:.11sal on
7 the -- on the --
8 Tm wIT N:E s s : I ' nr g e 1i ffg 'ke- 0"b j e ct ¥l>;.rm a d v i o e

9 o fr' mw rno:wn s e TI •

10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) F'm no t aa ki ng you to
11 rm .
13 THE WITNESS: Yes.
14 Q. ( BY IYH~ • J AM'E S IB'E.LL) And yo u ' re go i ng t o re f u s e
15 the identify the name of any attorneys that you've had a
16 relationship with, whether attorney/client or otherwise,
17 based on your Fitth Amendment privilege?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Are you going to take the Fifth Amendment with
20 respect to your relationship with Cameron Smith?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to take the
24 Fifth Amendment -- strike that.
25 Are you taking the Fifth Amendment with

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRJ115

1 respect to your relationship with Jim Rolf?
2 A. Yes.
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form again.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How much have you paid
5 David Bell or are you taking the Fifth Amendment?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not going to testify
7 about his relationship with his attorney.
8 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to testify
9 about any attorneys. I'm going to plead the Fifth. See
10 Exhibit 1.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And you're pleading the
12 Fifth to as who your referral source was as to getting
13 to David Bell?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not going to testify
15 about that any conversations with -- or communications
16 with any attorney. Objection; form.
17 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. I'm -- I'm not
18 asking - - was - - did a nonattorney ref er you to David
19 Bell?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: No.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So you're going to
23 ref use to answer the question about who - - which
24 attorney was the referral source to David Bell or are
25 you taking the Fifth Amendment?

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1 A. I am, yes.
2 Q. You're taking
3 A. I'm I'm pleading the Fifth Amendment. See
4 Exhibit 1.
5 Q. On September 8th meeting that you had -- strike
6 that.
7 On the -- do you remember on your
8 August 13, 2015, meeting pitching Brandon McCarthy to
9 use your Prisoner Entry Program that you had started?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Is that possible?
12 A. It's possible.
13 Q. And did you do you remember talking about
14 Forrest Park and Dr. Rumloui at that first meeting on
15 August 2013, 2015?
16 A. At K&L Gates?
17 Q. Yes, sir.
18 A. I don't recall it, but I'll not saying it's not
19 possible.
20 Q. Sure. Is it -- is it possible that you spent
21 time talking about your Prisoner Entry Program at K&L
22 Gates at your first meeting with Brandon McCarthy? Yes
23 or no?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Is it -- it's also possible that you spent time

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1 talking about Forest Park Medical Center with Brandon
2 McCarthy at your first meeting at K&L Gates, correct?
3 A. Is the question is it possible?
4 Q. Yes.
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And it's possible that you
8 also spoke about Dr. Rumloui with Brandon McCarthy at
9 the first meeting at K&L Gates on or about August 13,
10 2015, correct?
11 A. It's possible. I don't recall.
12 Q. It's also possible that you talked about --
13 MR. JAMES BELL: I can move this over. I'm
14 sorry.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) It's also possible that
16 you spoke to Brandon McCarthy about a man -- a gentleman
17 by the name Joe Garza? Do you recall that on that
18 August 2013, 2015, meeting?
19 A. It's possible.
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) When you went to that
22 September 13th meeting, did you understand how Qui Tams
23 worked, or no?
24 A. No. August.
25 Q. I'm sorry. When you showed up to the August

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1 13, 2015, meeting did you understand how Qui Tams
2 worked?
3 A. No. That's why we went there, to primarily see
4 if we could began Brandon's knowledge.
5 Q. On how -- on how a Qui Tam works?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. You didn't have any information on any
8 compounding pharmacies, doctors, hospitals, correct, at
9 that August meeting?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. You had some information regarding stock
12 schemes and possibly Dr. Ru ml oui, correct, at that first
13 meeting?
14 A. Possibly.
15 Q. At that first meeting?
16 A. Possibly, yes.
17 Q. You would agree with me that nothing
18 substantive was discussed at that first meeting with
19 Brandon McCarthy in August of 2015, correct?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: Nothing substantive, but
22 speaking on Rumloui, now that I recollect, it -- it
23 strikes me as Brandon also thought he was a crook. I
24 mean that all our -- talking about him. Because I did
25 too and he -- he pretty much thought the same. But

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1 there was no specifics talked about as far as what
2 exactly he's done or anything.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay . So you-all - - you
4 recall you remember talking about Dr. Rumloui - -
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. -- at that first meeting?
7 A. I - - I don't know when it was actually was, but
8 I know I've talked to Brandon about Rumloui.
9 Q. And it probably would have been at the first
10 meeting?
11 A. I guess, you know , I
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't guess, please.
13 THE WITNESS: Okay. Possibly.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And then you would
15 agree with me that nothing substantive was discussed
16 about any pharmacy, hospital, or doctor that you're
17 aware of at that first meeting, correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 THE WITNESS: Correct.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you remember the name
22 of -- strike that.
23 Do you know whether or not Gus gave Brandon
24 the name of -- the proper name of any compounding
25 pharmacies or was he just listing them off? Do you

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1 remember?
2 A. I don't recall.
3 Q, So you don't recall which pharmacies Gus talked
4 to Brandon about, correct?
5 A. Correct.
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: Correct.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And whatever pharmacies
9 were mentioned, you don't remember any criminal conduct
10 or willful conduct that was discussed at that meeting,
11 because you said nothing substantive was discussed,
12 correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. And Brandon McCarthy told you he needed to run
15 a conflict checks, correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Before he could proceed, cor r ect?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Because that was the standard procedure and he
20 wanted to make sure that -- this is his third day at a
21 big tall building law firm - - that he doesn't get in any
22 trouble, right?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: Absolutely.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) That was the impression

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1 that you got?
2 A. Absolutely.
3 Q. Did Brandon at that first meeting appear to be
4 careful and cautious about what clients or Qui Tams he
5 could or couldn't take and -- and the conflict
6 procedures? Did he seem to be aware of those and
7 cognizant and
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form, please.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Go ahead. What's the
11 answer?
12 A. Well, he -- he was -- he -- we just discussed
13 the basics of how a Qui Tam worked. It wasn't -- there
14 was no specifics. It was -- you know, and then he said
15 he had to, you know, see if there's any conflicts.
16 There wasn't any intimate details about any case or
17 person or anything like that.
18 Q. So no intimate details were talked to about any
19 case or person, correct, at the first meeting?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. There was -- it was just basically an overview
22 of how Qui Tam work, correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And the names -- there were some names that
25 were given to Brandon McCarthy, correct?

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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. You don't remember the name of those pharmacies
3 because they were al 1 - -
4 A. There's so many of them and it was names and
5 companies and no, I don't -- I don't recall, you know,
6 all the names and companies that were talked about.
7 Q. And Brandon McCarthy told you and Gus that he
8 needed to run a conflict checks, correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And before he could even take a look at it or
11 talk about any of these pharmacies because they could
12 potentially be clients of K&L Gates, correct?
13 A. Correct. He made no comments whatsoever
14 regarding any person or any company while we were there.
15 Q. Okay. So Brandon seemed compl et el y
16 professional in his dealings with you and Gus, correct?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
18 THE WITNESS: Correct. Correct.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You've been around enough
20 attorneys to know whether or not a lawyer is
21 professional or not, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And Brandon seemed and -- seemed prepared and
24 professional in terms of abiding by, based on your
25 observations, abiding by his legal duties and ethical

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1 obligations to clients, and former clients, and/or
2 existing clients of K&L Gates, correct?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 THE WITNESS: Correct. There was no - -
5 like I said, there was he didn't make any substantive
6 comments. He listened to us. And the then at the end
7 he said, well, you know, before I can advise you or do
8 anything, I have to do a conflict check. And so yes,
9 correct.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So Brandon told you
11 before he could do anything or advise, he had to run a
12 conflicts check, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. And that seemed like the right thing to do,
15 correct?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: Based on my, you know,
18 limited knowledge of law, yes.
19 a. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And based on Brandon Is
20 professionalism that's why you continued to stay in
21 contact with him? It's one of the reasons why, correct?
22 A. Correct .
23 Q. That he seemed to maintain confidentiality and
24 he didn't seem like a shady lawyer to you, correct?
25 A. Correct.

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1 a. He seemed like he was honest, ethical in his
2 dealings with the two of you, at least in your limited
3 interaction with him, correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. He didn't give you or Gus any legal advice,
6 correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Brandon just in that first meeting, just
9 listened to the two of you, correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. And as you sit here right now, there's nothing
12 you can say that Brandon did wrong in that first meeting
13 with you in August of 2015, correct?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
15 THE WITNESS: Correct. Correct.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And in terms of the second
17 meeting that happened, I believe at the hotel, there's
18 nothing Brandon said that was inappropriate or wrong or
19 unethical in your opinion, correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. The book that you reference in your text
22 message with Nathan Halsey where you offer to pay him
23 $1000, does that refer to a copy of a PowerPoint
24 presentation?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 THE WITNESS: On advice of my counsel , I
2 plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you seen a PowerPoint
4 presentation related to any alleged health care schemes?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; asked and
6 answered. Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: Plead the Fifth. See Exhibit
8 1.

9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you remember a name
10 called Trilogy coming up in the fall of 2015?
11 A. I mean I've heard the name.
12 Q. Do you know anything about the pharmacy called
13 Trilogy?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you have any evidence that Brandon McCarthy
16 brought or attempted to bring a Qui Tam lawsuit against
17 a company called Progen?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 Q, (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any evidence
21 that Brandon put his personal well-being above any of
22 his clients, former clients, or alleged clients?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any evidence

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1 that Brandon McCarthy has tried to drum up any federal
2 criminal conviction into any of his former clients,
3 clients or existing clients?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Or prospective clients.
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: No.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
9 evidence knowledge or facts to suggest that Brandon
10 McCarthy helped published slanderous news articles
11 against clients, former clients, existing clients or
12 other folks?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 THE WITNESS: No.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
16 evidence that Brandon McCarthy's ever exploited a
17 client -- a confidential relationship with any of his
18 clients, former clients, or existing clients?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 THE WITNESS: No.
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. When you got to a
22 stopping point.
23 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay. Give me five
24 minutes. Is that all right?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Yeah. I was just going

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1 to - -
2 MR. JAMES BELL: If you want to bring pizza
3 in here --
4 MR. DAVID BELL: No, just
5 (Pause in proceedings)
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) At -- based on your,
7 previous testimony that Brandon McCarthy didn't say much
8 he didn't -- at the first meeting Brandon McCarthy
9 didn't tell you that he wanted to be in charge of
10 bringing a Qui Tam against anybody at that point in
11 time, correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. It was more at the first meeting it was more
14 Brandon McCarthy trying to give you information about
15 what a Qui Tam was and the law behind a Qui Tam,
16 correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Just a basic overview what a Qui Tam was?
19 A. We were just there I mean I like Brandon.
20 I mean I would consider him my friend so I just said --
21 I told Gus, I said, let's go there and he can explain
22 it. I don't know what it is and it's very confusing to
23 me. So I said he can explain it to us. And, you know,
24 we can see if there's a possibility or not on whatever,
25 you know, everybody was thinking about trying to make

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1 some money any off a Qui Tam case. Because I was too.
2 We were all, you know, trying to figure out how we can
3 make some money off of this deal. So we just went there
4 and -- and Brandon just kind of outlined the basics of
5 how they worked. But not as far as any particular
6 person or company or anything like that.
7 Q. Did you bring the concept of the Qui Tam
8 against Progen and its principals to Brandon McCarthy?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Was there ever a plan for you to be a plaintiff
11 in Qui Tam lawsuit against Progen that you're aware of?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Did you discuss the name Progen in the
14 August 2015 meeting?
15 A. Not that I recall. I don't -- I mean they were
16 rattling ...
17 Q. As you sit here right now, can you remember the
18 name --
19 A. No, I cannot.
20 Q. As you - - I just got to get a clean record.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. As you sit here right now, do you remember the
23 name Progen even coming up in your August 2015 meeting
24 with Brandon McCarthy?
25 A. No.

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1 Q. Was -- strike that.
2 Brandon McCarthy never solicited you to be
3 a plaintiff in the Qui Tam action, correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 (Pause in proceedings)
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Since you didn't know the
7 name Progen, would you agree with me that you were never
8 adverse to Progen?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS: I would agree with that.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Brandon McCarthy
12 conspire with you to move forwards with a Qui Tam?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 THE WITNESS: No.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Brandon McCarthy
16 strategize and/or conspire with you to move forward
17 regarding a Qui Tam?
18 A. No.
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 THE WITNESS: No.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Brandon McCarthy make
22 a deal with you regarding any Qui Tam?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did Brandon McCarthy ever make any illegal
25 deals with you?

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1 A. No.
2 Q. Did Brandon McCarthy ever say that he would
3 personally receive a portion of any recovery of a Qui
4 Tam to you?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Did McCarthy say that he would take on a - - a
7 Qui Tam without supporting evidence?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did Brandon McCarthy ever talk to you about any
10 referral fee or fee for him?
11 A. No.
12 Q, Did you see a PowerPoint presentation by
13 Brandon McCarthy in or around Brandon McCarthy or that
14 Brandon McCarthy had anything to do with?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Do you have any evidence, facts, or knowledge
17 that Brandon McCarthy was looking into Progen to sue
18 them?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 THE WITNESS: No.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
22 evidence, knowledge, or facts that McCarthy was looking
23 in to Shuster Raul or any of those folks to sue them or
24 harm them?
25 A. No.

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1 Q. Do you have any evidence, facts, or knowledge
2 to suggest that Brandon McCarthy tried to get any former
3 clients, existing clients or prospective clients
4 criminally prosecuted?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
6 THE WITNESS: No.
7 (Pause in proceedings)
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you ever hear Brandon
9 McCarthy bring up the name Progen to the best of your
10 recollection?
11 A. No.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you remember Brandon
13 McCarthy i n any - - you don't remember Brandon McCarthy
14 bringing up the name Shuster Raul or Express Pharmacy in
15 your meetings, correct?
16 A. Correct. He didn't comment on anything. He
17 just listened and then told us that he had to do a
18 check. That's it.
19 Q. Do you have any direct evidence, knowledge, or
20 facts that Brandon McCarthy -- that Brandon McCarthy
21 helped Nathan Halsey obtain information or records about
22 Progen and/or are R Express?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Or any of its principals?

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1 A. No.
2 Q. Do you have any direct evidence, knowledge, or
3 facts that suggest that Brandon McCarthy attempted to
4 persuade the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to
5 investigate Progen or RExpress Rolf or Shuster, any of
6 those fol ks?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
10 evidence, knowledge, or facts that -- that Brandon
11 McCarthy had something to do with presenting allegations
12 regarding Progen or any of the companies I've mentioned
13 to the U.S. attorney's office?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
15 THE WITNESS: No.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
17 evidence, knowledge, or facts that Brandon McCarthy
18 worked with Halsey Kepler or you to publish defamatory
19 news articles and television segments?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: No.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
23 evidence that Brandon McCarthy had anything to do with a
24 CBS news article?
25 A. No.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
3 evidence that Brandon McCarthy spurred the issuance of
4 the warrant on Halsey's phone?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Based solely on your dealings with Brandon
7 McCarthy, you would agree with me, he was honest in his
8 dealing with you, true?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Based on your dealings with Brandon McCarthy,
11 you would agree with me that he seemed ethical in his
12 dealings with you, true?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. You would agree with me that Brandon McCarthy
15 in his dealings with you was upfront, honest, had
16 integrity, correct?
17 A. I WO LI l d.
18 Q. You'd say that Brandon McCarthy, in his
19 dealings with you, presented himself as a loyal -- an
20 attorney that acted with loyalty and integrity of the
21 strictest kind? Would you agree with that?
22 A. Yes. I mean, like I said, we were friends. I
23 was helping him with the Keep My ID thing. So I
24 would -- yeah. The answer is yes. I mean ...
25 Q. You' re not aware of any false or inaccurate

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1 statements that Brandon McCarthy made, correct?
2 A. No.
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 THE WITNESS: No.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I asked a double negative.
6 I'm sorry.
7 A. Oh, okay.
8 Q, Would you agree with me that you're not aware
9 of false or inaccurate statements that Brandon McCarthy
10 has made about any clients, former clients, existing
11 clients, future clients, or anybody to your knowledge.
12 Do you - -
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) - - agree with that
15 statement?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Do you have the direct evidence, knowledge, or
18 facts to suggest that Brandon McCarthy urged CBS to run
19 any kind of story regarding any of his clients, former
20 clients, or existing clients?
21 A. No.
22 MR. DAVID BELL: This is yours.
23 MR. JAMES BELL: Thank you.
24 (Pause i n proceedings)
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) When you told Brandon

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1 McCarthy that you've got a huge case out of Fort Worth
2 in the hundreds of millions health care, you didn't have
3 any facts or evidence at that time, you just possible
4 you were just searching for a potential Qui Tam case,
5 correct?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: Correct.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How is your daughter, by
9 the way?
10 A. Fine. Thank you.
11 Q. Good.
12 A. Fourteen. She's still sweet. Hopefully she
13 stays that way.
14 MR. JAMES BELL: The name of the gal at the
15 second meeting was Brooke Chavez Taylor.
16 THE WITNESS: Taylor. Brooke Taylor.
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Hey, can I have that?
18 MR. JAMES BELL: No.
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Let me see her again.
20 Cute.
21 THE WITNESS: Yes, she's cute. What do you
22 think, Brandon?
23 MR . McCARTHY: She went to Harvard.
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Do what?
25 MR . McCARTHY: Harvard. Smart girl .

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1 Harvard. Harvard.
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Harvard, Massachusetts?
3 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
4 MR. JAMES BELL: Yes.
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Sure it wasn't Howard?
6 MR. JAMES BELL: Yeah. Positive.
7 (Pause in proceedings)
8 THE WITNESS: She's in law school, I think.
9 I heard she maybe went to law school.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Where are you currently
11 living in case I have to subpoena you at another point
12 in time?
13 A. 5608 Matalee, but I don't know how long. I'll
14 update you if I change my address.
15 MR. JAMES BELL: Well, you've got to go
16 through your attorney.
17 THE WITNESS: Or I'll update him to let you
18 know.
19 That's another coincidence that came up, I
20 guess, I can't -- I'm not allowed to live there because
21 of my - -
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't go into any of that
23 stuff, please.
24 THE WITNESS: Okay. So ...
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You would agree in your

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1 dealings with Brandon McCarthy it appeared that he
2 adhered to his ethical 1 egal duties, correct?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Form; asked and answered.
4 THE WITNESS: Correct.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) McCarthy seemed -- strike
6 that.
7 Based on your observations, McCarthy seemed
8 faithful to his clients, correct?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Form; asked and answered.
10 MR. JAMES BELL: I didn't ask that before,
11 by the way. I haven't asked any of these.
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Asked and answered.
13 THE WITNESS: I mean, yeah, correct.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) McCarthy appeared --
15 strike that.
16 McCarthy was forthright, correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. McCarthy was frank with you guys?
19 A. Correct.
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) McCarthy seemed like he
22 had a conscience, correct?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: Correct.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Honorable?

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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Just?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Moral?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Principled?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Conscientious?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. Fair?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Equitable?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Upright?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Honorable?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Trustworthy?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Impartial?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. Unbiased?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Unprejudiced?
25 A. Correct.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt139

1 Q. Neutral?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Lawful?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Legal?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. Legitimate?
8 A. Correct.
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. I don't
10 know what that means.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did McCarthy reveal,
12 disclose or divulge any information about any of his
13 clients to you?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Did McCarthy leak, unmask, expose any
16 information about any of his clients, prospective
17 clients to you?
18 A. No.
19 MR. JAMES BELL: Let's take a quick pizza
20 break and maybe I can shore this up.
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Yeah.
22 MR. JAMES BELL: Is that cool?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Sure.
24 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay.
25 (Break taken)

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt140

1 Q, (BY MR. JAMES BELL) All right. Just -- is
2 there anything I can say or do to change your mind about
3 the questions I've asked regarding the Fifth Amendment?
4 Change -- are you going to continue to maintain the
5 Fifth Amendment with respect to the questions I asked
6 you?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm better suited to
8 answer that question than he is. So we've talked about
9 meeting. Let's meet and then we'll revisit all that.
10 MR. JAMES BELL: I know. I just need to
11 get on the record.
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. That's fine.
13 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay.
14 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I would like to stick
15 with my answers.
16 MR. JAMES BELL: I just -- let me ask it
17 again, just so I have a clean record.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Is there anything I can
19 say or do to change your mind with regard to withdrawing
20 your assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege
21 regarding any of the questions I've asked you thus far?
22 A. No.
23 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay. Now, just -- I
24 think it will take ten minutes in terms of a timeline.
25 Well --

EXHlBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt141

1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You' re going to assert the
2 Fifth Amendment privilege with respect to any dealings
3 with Cameron Smith, correct?
4 A. Wel 1, any attorneys is what I'm going assert
5 the Fifth Amendment with.
6 Q. Okay.
7 MR. DAVID BELL: And any and all.
8 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to assert the
10 Fifth Amendment privilege with respect to Cameron Smith,
11 correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Jim Rolf, correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. Joe Kendal 1 , correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Okay. Now, you're aware of circumstances
18 whereby folks were -- or have tried to implicate -- or
19 her of implicating Brandon -- Brandon McCarthy in some
20 kind of nefarious or wrongful conduct, correct?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
22 THE WITNESS: Wel 1, I mean - - hearsay.
23 I've heard at lot of stuff, you know.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Secondhand?
25 A. Yeah. About everybody and everything. I mean

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt142

1 as far as this case is kind - - or this deal , whatever
2 you want to cal 1 it, has kind taken of taken on a 1 i fe
3 of its own. So I've heard all kinds of stuff about all
4 different people.
5 Q. So what have you heard about any alleged
6 wrongdoing by Brandon McCarthy, even though it's
7 secondhand. Now I'm asking for indirect knowledge or
8 indirect facts.
9 A. I mean the thing -- I guess, you know, the
10 whole thing with -- with Nathan and getting wired up by
11 the FBI. That -- I -- I really get confused as far as
12 the companies or whatever that maybe -- that as far as
13 Kevin Krouse is concerned that that for -- that Kevin
14 Krouse would not run Nathan's SEC complaint in the
15 newspaper if if he was given the information on
16 whomever, Scoot Shuster, Dustin, et cetera. But I
17 don't -- I don't know who that deal was made with, if
18 there ever was a deal. I just had heard that from
19 Nathan.
20 Because Nathan had told me that if that
21 article runs in Dallas -- all his investors are in
22 Dallas -- and he's basically screwed.
23 Q. My question is: What have you heard that
24 Brandon McCarthy has done wrong? Or has everything you
25 learned about Brandon McCarthy come from attorneys?

EXHlBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt143

1 A. No, I mean a lot of it came from Halsey. But I
2 don't -- you know, I mean I guess the that I heard
3 that he sent Nathan to the FBI office to get wired up to
4 go get information against whomever. I don't know who
5 exactly who they were, but ...
6 That.
7 You know and, like I said , about me, I've
8 heard, you know, numerous times that he had somebody at
9 the IRS and that he was going to put on me.
10 Q. Who did you hear that from again?
11 A. Well, I heard it from the guy that Carl, who
12 was a client of what's his name that I mentioned
13 earlier? I don't know. It's some -- some attorney.
14 Carl Flemining is his name. The guy at Hillstone. I
15 know that there's a guy whose name is Hoi that has, you
16 know, been calling people. And I had a girl -- an ex-
17 girlfriend that said he called her and was asking about
18 my investments and did I beat her up. And then she said
19 eight months later he called and said, well, does Ryan
20 sell drugs? And I'm going, what's going on here?
21 I've heard -- well, you're talking about
22 Brandon. I'm trying to think. I mean , that -- that he
23 was representing somebody and getting evidence against
24 them when they were his client -- when they were his
25 firm's client.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt144

1 Q. Who did you hear that from, that allegation?
2 A. I don't know. It's like all so convoluted. I

3 don't really remember. I'm just telling you things I
4 remember that I've heard. You know ...
5 Q. Did you hear that allegations from any
6 attorneys?
7 A. I don't recall. But I mean I guess the main
8 thing is the FBI thing. Because -- that -- that's --
9 you know, when Nathan told me that was -- that he was
10 doing that, that -- that scared me. And I don't know
11 who, what or -- had anything to do with that. But I
12 didn't -- that's when I was -- that made me nervous.
13 You know, especially in my situation. I just felt that
14 was careless of him to be doing. But I know he wanted
15 to get off that case, that SEC case.
16 I heard that -- that Brandon called the SEC
17 attorney that was handling Nathan's case and maybe tried
18 to trade you know, try to get Nathan -- help Nathan
19 out. And I don't know if that's improper or not. I
20 mean but I heard that. And that the SEC attorney told
21 Nathan that if Barack Obama cal 1 s me, I wouldn't drop
22 this case. I'm not -- I'm not I don't know if that's
23 wrong or not. I don't know if Brandon had anything to
24 do with it. I'm just telling you things I've heard.
25 I'm -- I'm not saying they're right, wrong, or

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt145

1 indifferent. I don't know.
2 But mainly the FBI thing and, you know,
3 from Nathan what said I -- I didn't -- you know, that he
4 went to Krouse. I don't know who all met with Kevin
5 Krouse. But, you know, it was told to me that there
6 it was a trade where they would get Kevin the
7 information on Shuster Raul, et cetera, and all the
8 companies if he wouldn't run that story.
9 Basically that's, you know, what I can
10 remember.
11 Q. With regard to your assertion of the Fifth
12 Amendment regarding the book that we were talking about
13 earlier. Do you remember that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. When did you first hear of a book or a
16 PowerPoint? Are you going to take the Fifth Amendment?
17 A. Well, I've never heard of a PowerPoint.
18 Q. Okay. You've heard of a book?
19 A. I've heard of a book, but I don't -- I've never
20 seen a book. I don't -- it's my -- it's my belief that
21 the book -- that the way that it was described by Gus
22 and Nathan -- had nothing do to with Brandon.
23 Q. Your under --
24 A. I --

25 Q. Your understanding is the book had nothing to

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10 , 2017 - ROUGH DRt146

1 do with Brandon?
2 A. No. It wasn't -- it wasn't a
3 Q. Well, I just -- I asked you a double negative.
4 It was your understanding -- would it be a
5 fair statement to say that your understanding was the
6 book that you were talking about earlier with Gus and
7 Nathan had nothing to do with Brandon. That would be a
8 true statement, correct?
9 A. Abso-- yes.
10 Q. Okay. Now, tell me what else do you --
11 A. Wel 1, the - - the from my understanding was
12 it was about Shuster and Raul . I don't even - - it was
13 never - - I never have heard - - that's what struck me as
14 funny when you said was there a book that was trying
15 to - - that people were trying to get to hurt him. It
16 was - - it had nothing to do with him. I think you're
17 you're there's something that you're missing as far
18 as that's concerned.
19 I think that whatever this book was had to
20 do with the evidence that Nathan obtained on whoever he
21 was recording and text messaging and things of that
22 nature .
23 Q. That's your guess?
24 A. That's what I was told.
25 Q. Who were was told that by?

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DR~147

1 A. Nathan and Gus.
2 Q. Okay. But as far as you know, you don't - - you
3 don't think Brandon had anything to do with this book,
4 correct?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Okay. So yeah, I asked you a double negative.
9 Just to be clear.
10 As far as you knew Brandon McCarthy had
11 nothing to do with this book that Nathan and/or Gus --
12 Nathan Halsey, Gus Kepler had made, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Now, at some point request you were trying to
15 obtain this book from either Gus or Nathan, right?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: That, I'm going to plead the
18 Fifth on -- on anything that has to do with me trying to
19 obtain this book. I'm just telling you
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Just let let him --
21 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) What is the reasoning
23 behind -- how would talking about the book incriminate
24 you?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: You don't need to answer

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt148

1 that. You're asking him for a 1 egal conclusion.
2 Just - -
3 THE WITNESS: I'm just going to plead the
4 Fifth.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. When - - wel 1 , why
6 did you want to obtain a copy of the book?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: I'm going to plead the Fifth
9 on that.
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Tel 1 him go back to
11 Exhibit --
12 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
13 (Pause in proceeding)
14 THE WITNESS: I mean what I'm telling you
15 is
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Just leave it.
17 THE WITNESS: Okay.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) If you were me sitting
19 here right now, what question should I ask you that
20 wouldn't call for your invocation of the Fifth Amendment
21 privilege?
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 Why don't you and I talk, like we
24 discussed earlier.
25 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm happy to talk to you

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DR~149

1 afterwards. I'm -- I'm just -- I want --
2 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to let him
3 answer those questions. I'm not going to let him waive,
4 knowingly or inadvertently, his First or Fifth Amendment
5 or any other right he has.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So are you pleading the
7 Fifth Amendment with respect to why you wanted to obtain
8 a copy of the, quote, unquote, book?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: He's doing what he's
10 testified on the record.
11 MR. JAMES BELL: I know. I just got to get
12 a record.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: That's all that he's --
14 just -- just
15 THE WITNESS: I'm pleading the Fifth. See
16 Exhibit 1.
17 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And was it your
18 intent to purchase the book and then sell the book?
19 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .
20 Q. Who all was involved i n - - strike that.
21 Was it more than you involved in attempting
22 to purchase the book?
23 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .
24 Q. Did you try and get the book from Gus Kepler?
25 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .

EXHlBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REY~OLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRl150

1 Q. Did you try and get the book from Nathan
2 Halsey?
3 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
4 Q. Why were you train -- trying to obtain a book
5 that you had never seen?
6 A. I have to plead the Fifth again. See Exhibit
7 1.

8 Q. Did somebody instruct you to obtain the book?
9 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
10 Q. Why did anybody else want to have a copy of the
11 book?
12 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
13 Q. How was the book going to help you?
14 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
15 Q. Were you going to benefit -- benefit by
16 obtaining the book?
17 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .
18 Q. Were you ever given the book?
19 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .
20 Q. Did you have a copy of the book and just not
21 look at it?
22 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .
23 Q. Have you ever held any type - - have you ever
24 held this book in your hand?
25 A. Plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt151

1 a. And when I say "the book," this is the book
2 that was allegedly created by Halsey and and Gus,
3 correct?
4 A. I mean I don't know.
5 a. Is that your understanding of the book that
6 we're talking about?
7 A. No.
8 a. What is your understanding of the book?
9 A. Because you're telling me there was a book that
10 had something to do with McCarthy.
11 a. I'm talking the book regarding Halsey and --
12 and and -- and Kepler. That's the only book that's
13 out there.
14 A. That I'm aware of.
15 a. I'm talking about the - - the book - -
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Excuse me. Objection;
17 form.
18 MR. JAMES BELL: Sure.
19 a. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I'm talking about the book
20 that you're referring to in the text messages between
21 you and Kepler and you and Halsey. Do you understand
22 that?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: I'm going to plead. And see
25 Exhibit 1 on that.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt152

1 But you inferred earlier that it was some
2 kind of book to use against McCarthy (indicating).
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) The implication is if
4 Brandon McCarthy had something to do with creating that
5 book, he would have been creating against some of his
6 own clients. And that would be wrongful. Don't you
7 agree?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Asked
9 for a 1 egal -- asks -- asks for a legal conclusion.
10 THE WITNESS: I've -- I've never heard
11 that. That that Brandon had anything do with that
12 book, if we're talking about the same book.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I'm talking about the book
14 that you're talking about in your text messages to
15 Halsey and Gus.
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
18 Exhibit 1.
19 I just didn't know -- you inferred earlier
20 that there was some book out there that was trying to do
21 harm to McCarthy.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) It's the same book I'm
23 talking about.
24 A. Okay. I've never thought that Brandon had
25 anything to do with that book or produced it or went

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt153

1 out -- from -- from my understanding that was Nathan. I
2 don't I never so when you say that it's supposedly
3 going to be just against him, I don't -- I have no
4 knowledge of that.
5 Q. Well, do you understand the allegation against
6 Brandon?
7 A. No, apparently not.
8 Q. The -- the allegation is that he somehow has
9 had seen the book or produced the book, created the
10 book, help author the book with Nathan Halsey and -- and
11 Gus to turn against former clients. Do you understand
12 that that's one -- one of the allegations --
13 A. No.
14 Q. -- his firm is making against -- no?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Okay. Do you understand why I -- now I'm
17 trying to ask about the - - the same book? Why - - why
18 we're talking about the same book? Do you understand
19 now? Does that give you a better kind of - -
20 A. Yeah, I - - see, I didn't - - I didn't realize
21 all that.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. This is - - if - - if - - if this is this book
24 that's out there that has information on whomever, the
25 common knowledge out on the street is is that Nathan

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt154

1 Halsey created this book. And so when you were saying
2 that about using it against Brandon or something, I I
3 thought you were talking about something different.
4 Because I -- that doesn't make any sense to me.
5 Q. Well, it makes sense to you now, right?
6 A. I --

7 Q. If Nathan Halsey created a book against clients
8 of Brandon McCarthy's and Brandon McCarthy knew about it
9 to -- and -- and handed it over -- to pursue a Qui Tam
10 lawsuit against his own clients, you could understand
11 that -- if that allegation was made, you can understand
12 why Brian -- why Brandon McCarthy wants to know who,
13 what, when, where, how about this alleged book because
14 he had nothing to do with it. You can understand that,
15 right?
16 A. Yeah. I never -- that didn't even cross my
17 mind that he would have. I'm telling you Nathan -- that
18 Halsey -- if this is this so-called book, Halsey created
19 this book, went out and got the information and it
20 was -- and from my understanding, this book was created
21 because Halsey was trying to obtain evidence to get
22 himself -- see, the Qui Tam was second nature. That
23 that was down the line. I mean there's other
24 there's -- Halsey thought he was in a pickle. I mean,
25 Halsey's been through this before, you know. Reid

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRl155

1 Prosper got him off a prior -- he almost got indicted
2 and Reid got him off a prior deal he was involved in.
3 So Halsey was worried that this SEC case could be
4 referred to the DOJ. And that -- if we're talking about
5 this book, that's what I understood the book to be.
6 I didn't even -- never related McCarthy to
7 this book whatsoever. It was for Halsey to get out of
8 whatever deal he was in.
9 Q. Did Halsey ever say to you that Brandon
10 McCarthy had anything do with this book?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did Gus Kepler ever tell you that Brandon
13 McCarthy anything to do with this book?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Then why were you trying to obtain a copy of
16 the book from Nathan Halsey?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
18 THE WITNESS: I'm going to plead the Fifth.
19 Exhibit 1 .
20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) If it has nothing to do
21 with Brandon McCarthy, why are you pleading the Fifth
22 Amendment as it relates to this book?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. I think
24 the law is clear. He doesn't have to explain that to
25 you, Counsel.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt156

1 a. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you taking the Fifth
2 Amendment?
3 A. Yeah. I'm pleading the Fifth. Exhibit 1.
4 Q. Did Nathan Halsey ever give you a copy of the
5 book?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Are you aware of any copies that exists out
8 there of the book?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did Gus Kepler have a copy of the book?
11 A. Not that I'm aware of.
12 a. Were you trying to get the book to pursue a Qui
13 Tam?
14 A. Plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
15 a. When you were offering $2,000 to Nathan Halsey
16 to get a copy of this book is it because you wanted to
17 pursue a Qui Tam case?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection -- objection;
19 form.
20 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
21 1.
22 a. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Jim Rolf or Cameron
23 Smith instruct you to offer $2,000 for the book so that
24 they could serriptiously help you prosecute a Qui Tam?
25 A. I plead the Fifth. Exhibit 1.

EXHIBIT 1
 - ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRl157

1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're pleading the
3 Fifth Amendment with respect to a book you've never
4 seen, right?
5 A. Yes. Correct.
6 Q. You're pleading the Fifth Amendment with
7 respect to a book you tried to obtain a copy - - how did
8 you - - strike that.
9 How did you know that a book even existed?
10 A. I think Halsey kind of prided himself on making
11 these presentations and, you know, I'm -- I'm friends
12 with Reid Prosper and he, at one point, told me that
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't tell him any
14 conversations with any lawyer that's ever represented
15 you.
16 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
17 Supposedly, Halsey was -- was good at
18 presentations and he made this to help himself.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Reid Prosper ever
20 represent you?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q, And are you aware of any other presentations,
23 other than the book that we're talking about, that
24 Halsey made?
25 A. Not in relation to this case.

EXHlBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBER 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRJ158

1 Q. Are -- are you aware of any other Qui Tam --
2 alleged Qui Tam presentations made by Halsey?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Are you aware of any other books or
5 presentations made by Halsey?
6 A. No. Halsey told me that when -- when he was
7 going to get indicted that he made some presentations to
8 show the government that he didn't do this. He kind of
9 pride -- like I said, he kind of prided himself on these
10 presentations and, hey, this is how I got out of this
11 deal, I went in there with these, you know, graphs and
12 stuff and showed that I wasn't the one that did it. I
13 was conned into doing this. And he -- he told me that
14 that's how he got off this indictment.
15 Q. Okay. But with respect to presentations or
16 books, other than about him and his case, are you only
17 aware of one book or one presentation where he was
18 attempting to pursue or throw other folks under the bus?
19 A. Yes. That's the only one I've heard about.
20 Q. And that's the book that we've been talking
21 about today, correct?
22 A. I assume.
23 Q. Okay. And how would somebody other than you
24 benefit from having the book?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

EXHIBIT 1
 ROUGH DRAFT OF RYAN REYNOLDS - NOVEMBcR 10, 2017 - ROUGH DRt159

1 THE WITNESS: The only other people I think
2 would benefit would be people that were representing the
3 people that maybe were in the book that wanted to see
4 what evidence was out there against them. I don't know.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And then turn around and
6 blame Brandon McCarthy?
7 A. That -- no, that doesn't -- that doesn't come
8 into my mind whatsoever.
9 Q. Have -- have you ever heard of those attorneys
10 saying that about Brandon McCarthy?
11 A. Never.
12 Q. Have you ever heard of Brandon McCarthy having
13 anything to do with putting together, stapling, being
14 involved with, touching this alleged book?
15 A. Never.
16 MR. JAMES BELL: Give me two minutes and
17 then I -- I'm sorry. I know I've said it a couple of
18 times and cried wolf, but ...
19 Let me just talk to my client.
20 (Break taken)
21 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm going to suspend the
22 deposition at this time.
23 (Proceedings concluded)
24
25

EXHIBIT 1
 '

STATE OF TEXAS }
C0 1Jf '£Y OF DA LAS
f, r 'l~:A PIT E, CIG k of the District of Dallas County,
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TAB D
 FILED
DALLAS COUNTY
11/22/2017 3:16 PM
FELICIA PITRE
DISTRICT CLERK

CAUSE NO. DC-17-13448

BRANDON MCCARTHY, § IN THE DISTRICT COURT
Plaintiff, §
§
§
v. § 134™ JUDICIAL DISTRICT
§
§
JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10, §
Defendants. § DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS

SUPPLEMENT TO PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS RYAN REYNOLDS

Plaintiff Brandon McCarthy ("Plaintiff') serves this Supplement to Plaintiffs Motion to

Compel Deposition Testimony from Ryan Reynolds and would respectfully show the Court the

following:

1. On November 20, 2017, Plaintiff filed his Motion to Compel Deposition Testimony

from Ryan Reynolds concerning various questions that witness Ryan Reynolds refused to answer

at his deposition due to baseless assertions of privilege made by his attorney David Bell. At the

time of the filing of that deposition, only the rough draft of the deposition transcript was available.

Plaintiff stated in that Motion he would supplement with the certified transcript once available.

2. The Court reporter provided the certified transcript on November 22, 2017.

Plaintiff is therefore supplementing his Motion with that certified copy.

3. With this Supplement, Plaintiff hereby supplements his Motion to Compel with the

certified transcript of Mr. Reynold's deposition attached hereto as Exhibit 1 and it is incorporated

by reference.
 Respectfully submitted,

JAMES S. BELL, P.C.
2808 Cole A venue
Dallas, Texas 75204
Tel: (214) 668-9000

By:/s/ James S. Bell
James S. Bell
State Bar No. 24049314
james@ jamesbell pc.c m
Attorney for Petitioner

Certificate of Service

I hereby certify that a true and correct copy of this document was served on all counsel of
record in compliance with the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure.

By:/s/ James S. Bell
James S. Bell

SUPPLEMENT TO PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO COMPEL DEPOSITION TESTIMONY
FROM WITNESS_RYAN REYNOLDS - Page 2
 MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS

Page 1
1 NO. DC-17-13448

2 BRANDON MCCARTHY ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
)
3 vs. ) 134TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
)
4 )
JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10 ) DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
5

6
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
7
ORAL DEPOSITION OF
8
RYAN REYNOLDS
9
NOVEMBER 10, 2017
10
Volume No. 1
11
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
12

13

14 ORAL DEPOSITION of RYAN REYNOLDS, produced

15 as a witness at the instance of the Plaintiff, and

16 duly sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered

17 cause on the 10th of November, 2017, from 10:12 a.m. to

18 2:51 p.m., before Sherry Folchert, CSR, in and for the

19 State of Texas, reported by machine shorthand, at the

20 offices of David Bell, 8350 Meadow Road, Suite 186,

21 Dallas, Texas, pursuant to the Texas Rules of Civil

22 Procedure.

23

24 CERTIFIED
25 TRANSCRIPT

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Page2
1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF:

3 James S. Bell
JAMES S. BELL, P.C.
4 2808 Cole Avenue
Dallas, Texas 75204
5 214-668-9000

6 FOR THE WITNESS:

7 David Bell
DAVID BELL, P.C.
8 8350 Meadow Road, Suite 186
Dallas, Texas 75231
9 214-368-3191

10 ALSO PRESENT:

11 Brandon McCarthy
Kelley Cash
12 Matt Segedy

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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Page 3
1 INDEX

2 PAGE

3 Appearances . 2

4 Stipulations. 4

5 RYAN REYNOLDS
Examination by Mr. James S. Bell 5
6
Signature and Changes 161
7
Reporter's Certificate. 163
8
EXHIBITS
9
NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
10
1 Fifth Amendment Invocation 79
11

12 CERTIFIED QUESTIONS

13
1 When did David Bell become your lawyer? 7/7
14
2 When did you retain Mr. Bell for services? 7/12
15
3 So you're going to refuse to answer my 7/20
16 question about when you retained Mr . Bell to
become your lawyer?
17
4 Are you going to refuse to answer my question 8/1
18 about when you retained Mr. Bell as your
lawyer?
19
5 Sir, are you going to refuse to answer my 8/7
20 question about when you retained Mr. Bell
to become your lawyer?
21
6 You're going to refuse to answer my question 9/1
22 about when Mr. Bell became your lawyer.

23

24

25

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Page4
1 AGREEMENTS
2 It is hereby agreed by and between the parties
3 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that
4 any and all objections to any question or answer herein,
5 except as to the form of the question and responsiveness
6 of the answer, may be made upon the offering of this
7 deposition in evidence upon the trial of this cause with
8 the same force and effect as though the witness were
9 present in person and testifying from the witness stand.
10 It is further agreed by and between the parties
11 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that
12 this deposition may be signed before any notary public
13 in and for the State of Texas, but if the original
14 deposition has not been signed by the witness and
15 returned by the time of the trial or any hearing in the
16 case, the unsigned original or a copy thereof may be
17 returned into Court and used with the same force and
18 effect as though all requirements of the rules and
19 statutes with reference to signature and return had been
20 fully complied with.
21
22
23

24

25

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1 P R 0 C E E D I N G S
2 RYAN REYNOLDS,
3 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. BELL:
6 Q. Sir, will you introduce yourself to the folks
7 on the jury, as well as the Court?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Excuse me, Counsel. First
9 identify yourself and everybody that you've brought with
10 you today.
11 MR. JAMES BELL: My name is James Bell. I
12 have my client here and two folks that work for me.
13 Matt Segedy and Kelley Cash.
14 MR. DAVID BELL: And your client is who?
15 MR. JAMES BELL: Brandon McCarthy.
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. And Matt Segedy
17 works for you, I believe, as of today, correct?
18 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm not here to answer
19 your questions. I'm telling you he works for me.
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Well, I'm going to
21 exclude -- ask that he be excluded because he's I

22 anticipate he's going to be a witness in these
23 proceedings. So if you insist on him staying here, I'm
24 not waiving that objection. Just placing you on notice
25 that we'll move to strike your use of this deposition if

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Page6
1 he stays in this deposition.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir, can you state your
3 name for the -- strike that.
4 Can you introduce yourself to the folks on
5 the jury as well as the Court?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Let the record show that
7 you ref use to acknowledge my comment or to respond to my
8 comment. Please proceed at your own risk and peril.
9 THE WITNESS: My name is Ryan Reynolds.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And, Mr. Reynolds,
11 you're a convicted felon, true?
12 A. I am.

13 Q. And have you had your deposition taken before?
14 A. Yes.

15 Q. How many times?
16 A. I don't remember.
17 Q. Approximately how many times?
18 A. I don't remember.
19 Q. Is it more than once?
20 A. Yes.

21 Q. More than five times?
22 A. I don't recall.

23 Q. You don't recall whether or not you've been
24 deposed more than five times?

25 A. I do not.

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1 Q. Okay. And you were served with a subpoena to
2 appear for your deposition last Wednesday, correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You did not appear, correct?
5 A. Let me see when that was exactly. No, I was
6 not at that deposition.
7 Q. Okay. When did David Bell become your lawyer?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Object. I'm not going to
9 allow you to answer any questions about my
10 representation of you.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir, I'm not asking you to
12 get in communications with your lawyer. When did you
13 retain Mr. Bell for services?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him
15 to answer any question that might invade the
16 attorney/client privilege.
17 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're going to refuse
18 to answer --
19 A. On the advice on my counsel.
20 Q. So you're going to refuse to answer my question
21 about when you retained Mr. Bell to become your lawyer?
22 A. I'm going to object on the advice of my
23 counsel.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse --
25 MR. JAMES BELL: Objection; nonresponsive.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
2 answer my question about when you retained Mr. Bell as
3 your lawyer?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Counsel, you're asking for
5 a legal conclusion. I'm not going to allow my client to
6 answer that question.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir, are you going to
8 refuse to answer my question about when you retained
9 Mr. Bell to become your lawyer?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Again, you're asking for a
11 legal conclusion. I'm not going to allow him to object
12 (sic) . Objection; form.
13 MR. JAMES BELL: So that's an objection
14 form or are you just --
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Both.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So are you going to refuse
17 to answer my question about -- strike that.
18 When did you first meet Mr. Bell?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him
20 to answer questions about me or my representation of
21 him. So ask any other question you want. Go ahead.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're going to
23 refuse -- just so that I have
24 MR. JAMES BELL: Make sure you certify
25 these.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to refuse to

2 answer my question about when Mr. Bell became your
3 lawyer. Would that be a true statement?

4 MR. DAVID BELL: I advise the client not to

5 answer any questions about my representation.

6 MR. JAMES BELL: I need to get a refusal on
7 the -- on the

8 THE WITNESS: I'm going to object on advice

9 of my counsel.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I'm not asking you to

11 object. I need to get on the record, just so it's

12 clear, you're going to refuse to answer my question

13 based on the advice of your lawyer. Is that a true

14 statement?
15 A. Correct.

16 Q. Okay. And you're going to refuse to answer my

17 question based on the advice of your lawyer of when he
18 became -- Mr. Bell became your lawyer, correct?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Okay. And you're going to refuse to answer my

21 questions surrounding the circumstances which led to
22 Mr. Bell becoming your lawyer? You're going to refuse
23 to answer that question as well, true?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. Okay.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Before you go further.
2 Let's try not to overtalk each other. And can I make a
3 suggestion, Counsel? Do you mind if we're referred to
4 as James and David? It might make life easier for the
5 reporter?
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And so you understand what

7 a deposition is, correct?

8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Asks for
9 a legal conclusion.
10 MR. JAMES BELL: You're only allowed to
11 object to the form. I didn't ask you for the basis.
12 MR. DAVID BELL: You're asking him for a
13 legal conclusion.
14 MR. JAMES BELL: That's a form objection.
15 So just object to form. Let's -- let's follow rules.
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Let's be civil.
17 MR. JAMES BELL: Yeah, let's.
18 MR. DAVID BELL: That's part of the Rule.
19 MR. JAMES BELL: Let's.
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Please proceed.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you understand what a

22 deposition is, correct?

23 MR. DAVID BELL: Asks for a legal
24 conclusion. Objection; form.
25 MR. JAMES BELL: You can still answer.

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1 THE WITNESS: I believe I do.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And you understand
3 what an oath is, correct?
4 A. I do.

5 Q. You're going to tell the truth, the whole
6 truth, and nothing but the truth, correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. You understand it's a felony in this state to
9 lie under oath?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. You understand that your testimony is being
12 taken word for word by the court reporter here?
13 A. I do.

14 Q. Okay. And you understand that you're going to
15 have an opportunity to review your deposition, correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Now, throughout this deposition, you've already
18 heard it, there's going to be some objections by your
19 lawyer as to form of the question and/or some
20 instructions for you to not answer. Now, if he objects
21 to form of the question, you still got to answer my
22 question. Do you understand that?
23 A. I do.

24 Q. Okay. And if he instructs you not to answer,
25 then you don't answer, right?

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1 A. Right.
2 Q. Now
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Let -- let me say one
4 thing before you get started. I've instructed the
5 client not to answer and I'm not going to allow him
6 to -- as you can see -- answer any questions about his
7 communication with any lawyers. I'm not going to allow
8 him to testify regarding any privilege shared with any
9 lawyers. And I'm not going to allow him to testify
10 about any matters not set out in the lawsuit you filed.
11 I just want to be clear on that.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And you understand the
13 difference between direct knowledge and indirect
14 knowledge, correct? Direct knowledge is something that
15 you can see, touch, smell, you see for yourself,
16 correct?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
18 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that?
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sure. You would agree
20 direct -- there's a difference between direct knowledge
21 and indirect knowledge? Direct knowledge is something
22 you can see, hear, smell, touch yourself, right?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: I do.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And indirect

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Page 13
1 knowledge is what some -- something or somebody may tell
2 you, correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Okay. And you understand the difference
5 between a question that calls for yes-or-no answer
6 versus one that calls for a narrative, right?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: I do.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. When did you meet
10 Brandon McCarthy?
11 A. I met him in a restaurant. I'm kind of bad
12 with dates, but I would say five, six years ago.
13 Q. Do you know when you met Brandon McCarthy?
14 A. The exact date?
15 Q. Do you know what year you met Brandon McCarthy?
16 A. I really don't remember. It was '09 or '10.
17 Q. Did you meet Brandon while he was still an
18 Assistant United States attorney?
19 A. I believe, yes.
20 Q. Okay. And how many times have you had
21 in-person meetings with Brandon McCarthy?
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 THE WITNESS: By -- you mean where we were
24 both physically present at those meetings? Is that what
25 you mean by that?

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) My question is: How many
2 times have you been in the physical presence of Brandon
3 McCarthy?
4 A. Many times.
5 Q. How many?
6 A. Four or five.
7 Q. Okay. So the first meeting you had with
8 Brandon McCarthy was in either 2009 or 2010?
9 A. Well, it wasn't a meeting. I just -- that's
10 when I met him.
11 Q. Okay. How many meetings have you had with
12 Brandon McCarthy?
13 A. I believe two.
14 Q. When was the first meeting with Brandon
15 McCarthy?
16 A. It was at K&L Gates.
17 Q. How long did that meeting last?
18 A. Approximately an hour maybe.
19 Q. Okay. And when was the first meeting -- strike
20 that.
21 When did the first meeting at K&L Gates
22 take place?
23 A. I don't remember the date, but it was right
24 when it was pretty close to when he had started
25 there.

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1 Q. Okay. When was your second and final meeting
2 with Brandon McCarthy?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 THE WITNESS : It was at a hotel downtown
5 with my -- with a friend of mine. And there was another
6 gentleman there. I forget the name of the hotel.
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Just asked you when, I
8 believe.
9 THE WITNESS : When, probably within --
10 within three or four months of the original meeting, the
11 first one .
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Would you say around
13 December 2015?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
15 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And so you had two
17 meetings with Brandon McCarthy. Just so the record is
18 clear. One at K&L Gates and one at a hotel downtown.
19 Would that be a true statement?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. No other meetings that you can think of
22 as you sit here right now?
23 A. Not that I can recall at this moment.
24 Q. And how long did the second meeting last?
25 A. Maybe an hour, hour and a half.

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1 Q. Okay. And at the second meeting you had
2 brought your friend, Ms. Sanchez; is that true?
3 A. No.
4 Q. What was the name of the friend that you
5 brought to the meeting?
6 A. Her first name is Brooke.
7 Q. What's her last name?
8 A. I don't recall.
9 Q. You -- so she's -- she's a friend of yours, but
10 you don't recall her last name?
11 A. Well, there were four people there, total. I
12 can't recall her last name right now.
13 Q. So you can't recall the name of the -- the last
14 name of the friend that you brought to the meeting at
15 the hotel; is that true?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: I didn't know her very well.
18 I mean I had just gotten to know her and -- and we met
19 Brandon and another guy that was friends with Brandon,
20 another attorney. But I don't recall, no.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And at the second
22 meeting you were there to discuss business involving
23 Protect My ID?
24 A. Yeah, I think it's protectmyid.org.
25 Q. And so you --

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1 MR. JAMES BELL: What is it?
2 MR. McCARTHY: It's Keep My ID.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And at the second meeting
4 you talked about keepmyid.com and potentially doing a
5 commercial or some social media for keepmyid.com; is
6 that true?
7 A. It's keepmyid.org. But we discussed, you know,
8 different marketing -- you know, how to market the
9 business and how to get it out there and, you know, kind
10 of like LifeLock does. But yes, pretty much marketing
11 type stuff.
12 Q. So the purpose of the second meeting was to
13 market -- discuss marketing and get out the business of
14 keepmyid.org, correct?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 THE WITNESS: Yeah, for the most part. I
17 mean that was the -- that was the reason for the
18 meeting, correct.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. Can you -- do you
20 remember anything else being discussed at that meeting,
21 at the second meeting?
22 A. Nothing that's relevant. Just, you know, what
23 people talk about when they're having a drink or
24 whatever. Just -- but, you know, nothing -- no other
25 kind of business or anything.

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1 Q. Okay. As you -- as you sit here right now, can
2 you recall anything else you talked to Brandon McCarthy
3 about at the second meeting at the hotel downtown --
4 A. No.
5 Q. where you --
6 Okay. Now, with respect the first meeting
7 at K&L Gates that lasted approximately one hour, is that
8 what you testified to?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. You talked about a business you start --
11 started, White Collar Advisors; is that true?
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
13 THE WITNESS: We might have. But we talked
14 about other things. That wasn't the point of the
15 meeting.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you discuss White
17 Collar Advisors?
18 A. I mean I may have with him, I don't -- I don't
19 remember that.
20 Q. Okay.
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Just tell him what you
22 remember. Don't tell him what you may have remembered,
23 please.
24 THE WITNESS: So can you repeat that?
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sure. What all did you

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1 say to Brandon at the first meeting at K&L Gates, the
2 first meeting you had with him?
3 A. Well, it was Gus Kepler and myself and we
4 talked about possibly doing a Qui Tam case against
5 Dustin Rall and Scott Schuster and however many
6 companies they have.
7 Q. And you discussed that with Brandon?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. And what would be the basis for the
10 alleged Qui Tam case?
11 A. Possible criminal acts that -- that they were,
12 I guess, doing or conspiring to do.
13 Q. And you didn't have any personal knowledge of
14 that, correct?
15 A. Of what?
16 Q. Of any criminal acts that Scott Schuster and
17 Dustin Rall were doing, true?
18 A. No, I didn't.
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Counsel, can we go off the
20 record for a second?
21 MR. JAMES BELL: No.
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. So on the record, I
23 understand that represent Mr. Schuster and I'm perplexed
24 as to why you would you ask questions about Mr.
25 Schuster, if you do represent Mr. Schuster. I'd rather

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1 have this discussion with you off the record.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So just -- so just so that
3 I'm aware, you -- you right now are on supervised
4 release. Would that be a true statement?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Okay. And part of your supervised release
7 standards are that you're not allowed to associate with
8 persons engaged in criminal activity, correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And you're not allowed to associate with folks
11 convicted of a felony, correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And you're not allowed to enter into any
14 agreements to act as an informer or special agent of a
15 law enforcement agency, correct?
16 A. Without permission, I'm not.
17 Q. That's right. Okay.
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Let me -- let me -- let
19 interject an objection here. I told you earlier that
20 I'm not going to allow the witness to testify about any
21 matters that aren't set out in your pleadings and I
22 don't see where any of these matters that you're asking
23 him for comments about, his criminal conviction or
24 anything else, are anywhere supported by anything in
25 your pleadings.

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1 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever gotten
3 special permission to act as an informer for the -- the
4 government?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection. I'm not going
6 to allow him to testify about any matter that impedes
7 the attorney/client privilege. I'm not going to let him
8 testify about any meetings he had with any lawyer.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
10 answer that question?
11 A. Yes.
12 MR. DAVID BELL: And any other question
13 similar to the --
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you -- do you
15 understand what defamation is?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection. Calls for a
17 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
18 THE WITNESS : Defamation, no.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) What is your understanding
20 of defamation?
21 A. I don't have an understanding.
22 Q. Okay. Have you ever made any false statements
23 about Brandon McCarthy?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Okay. Do you have any direct evidence or

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Page 22
1 knowledge, or facts that Brandon McCarthy has committed
2 any illegal conduct?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Do you have any direct evidence, knowledge, or
5 facts to support the position that Brandon McCarthy has
6 engaged in unethical conduct?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Calls for a legal
8 conclusion. Objection; form.
9 THE WITNESS: Meaning from myself
10 personally or people that I've spoken to on the phone
11 or
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I'm talking about direct
13 knowledge, sir.
14 A. From -- from a person that I know that called
15 me and told me what --
16 Q. I'm not asking you what a person called and
17 told. Remember we talked about direct knowledge versus
18 indirect?
19 A. Well, I don't have any direct knowledge, no.
20 Personally .
21 Q. I'm talking about what your personal knowledge
22 is. Okay. And that way we can keep -- we probably can
23 shorten this deposition a bunch. Is that fair?
24 A. Yeah. That's cool.
25 Q. All right. That way maybe you can get out of

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1 here and your lawyer can get out of here.
2 So you don't have any direct evidence that
3 Brandon McCarthy engaged any wrongful conduct, true?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
5 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
6 THE WITNESS: No.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Well, maybe I asked you a
8 double negative. It would be a true statement to say
9 that you don't have any direct knowledge that Brandon
10 McCarthy engaged in any unlawful conduct. That would be
11 a true statement, correct?
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Calls for a legal
13 conclusion. Objection; form.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Correct?
15 A. That would be correct.
16 Q. You don't have any direct knowledge or evidence
17 that Brandon McCarthy engaged in any unethical conduct,
18 correct?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Calls for a legal
20 conclusion. Objection; form.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Correct?
22 A. Give me a second to think. No, I don't.
23 Q. You don't have any direct knowledge or facts to
24 suggest that Brandon McCarthy engaged in any strike
25 that.

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1 You don't have any direct knowledge or
2 evidence that Brandon McCarthy breached any duties to
3 anybody, correct?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 THE WITNESS: I do not.
6 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
7 evidence or knowledge to suggest that Brandon McCarthy
8 defamed anybody, correct?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Calls
10 for a legal conclusion.
11 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
12 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
13 knowledge that Brandon McCarthy wasn't faithful to any
14 of his clients, correct?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
16 legal conclusion. Form.
17 THE WITNESS: I do not.
18 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have direct
19 knowledge that Brandon McCarthy harmed any of his
20 clients, correct?
21 A. I do not.
22 Q. You don't have direct evidence or knowledge
23 that Brandon McCarthy was deceptive towards any of his
24 clients, correct?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a

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1 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: I do not.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have direct
4 knowledge that Brandon McCarthy cheated any of his
5 clients, correct?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Calls for a legal
7 conclusion . Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 MR. JAMES BELL: Do you want a running
10 objection?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: No, I prefer to do it this
12 way. Thank you.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have any direct
14 evidence or knowledge that Brandon McCarthy defrauded
15 anybody, including any of his clients, correct?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Calls
17 for a legal conclusion.
18 THE WITNESS: Correct.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have direct
20 knowledge that Brandon McCarthy betrayed any of his
21 clients or anybody, correct?
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
24 THE WITNESS : Correct.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have any

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1 knowledge -- strike that.
2 You don't have any direct knowledge or
3 evidence or facts to suggest that Brandon McCarthy
4 wasn't loyal to anybody or any of clients, correct?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
6 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: Correct.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have direct
9 knowledge that -- that or evidence that Brandon McCarthy
10 didn't act with the utmost good faith towards any of his
11 clients, correct?
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Calls
13 for a legal conclusion. Objection.
14 THE WITNESS: Correct.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
16 knowledge and direct evidence that Brandon McCarthy
17 didn't act with candor towards any of his clients,
18 correct?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
20 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: Correct.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
23 evidence that Brandon McCarthy engaged in any
24 self-dealing of any kind towards any of his clients or
25 anybody, correct?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Calls
2 for a legal conclusion.
3 THE WITNESS: Correct.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
5 knowledge that Brandon McCarthy didn't act with
6 integrity of the strictest kind towards any of -- any of
7 his clients or anybody, correct?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
9 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
10 THE WITNESS: Correct.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
12 evidence that Brandon McCarthy wasn't fair to any of his
13 clients, correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
17 evidence that Brandon McCarthy didn't act with the
18 utmost honesty in dealing with his clients or anybody
19 else, correct?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
21 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
22 THE WITNESS: Correct.
23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
24 evidence that Brandon McCarthy didn't fully disclose all
25 of the facts to all of his clients or to anybody else,

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1 correct?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
3 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
4 THE WITNESS: Correct.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
6 evidence or knowledge or facts to suggest that Brandon
7 McCarthy didn't act with fidelity towards his clients or
8 anybody else, correct?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
11 THE WITNESS: Correct.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
13 evidence that -- or facts to suggest that Brandon
14 McCarthy didn't act with care when he dealt with his
15 clients or anybody else, correct?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
18 THE WITNESS: Correct.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
20 evidence or facts to suggest that Brandon McCarthy
21 wasn't fair and equitable in his dealings with any of
22 his clients or anybody else, correct?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
25 THE WITNESS: Correct.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
2 evidence strike that.
3 You don't have any direct evidence --
4 strike that.
5 You don't have any direct evidence or
6 knowledge to suggest that Brandon McCarthy made any
7 misrepresentations to any of his clients or anybody
8 else, correct?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
11 THE WITNESS: Correct.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
13 evidence that Brandon McCarthy engaged in any type of
14 fraud, correct?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
17 THE WITNESS : Correct.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
19 evidence that Brandon McCarthy breached any fiduciary
20 duties to any of his clients or anybody else, correct?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
22 Objection; calls for legal conclusion.
23 THE WITNESS : Correct.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
25 evidence that Brandon McCarthy damaged any of his

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1 clients or anybody else, correct?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
3 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
4 THE WITNESS: Correct.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have any direct
6 evidence that Brandon McCarthy acted with any ill will
7 towards of any of his clients or anybody else, correct?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
9 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
10 THE WITNESS: Correct.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have any direct
12 evidence or knowledge to suggest that Brandon McCarthy
13 acted with any evil motive towards any of his clients or
14 anybody else, correct?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
17 THE WITNESS: Correct.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have any direct
19 evidence that Brandon McCarthy acted with any kind of
20 malice towards any of his clients or anybody else,
21 correct?
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
24 THE WITNESS: Correct.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct

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1 evidence or knowledge of any crimes Brandon McCarthy may
2 have allegedly conunitted, correct?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
5 THE WITNESS: Correct.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
7 evidence that Brandon McCarthy was negligent in any way
8 towards any of his clients or anybody else, correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
11 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
13 knowledge or evidence to suggest that Brandon McCarthy
14 was grossly negligent towards any of his clients or
15 anybody else, correct?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
18 THE WITNESS: Correct.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
20 evidence that Brandon McCarthy interfered with any
21 contractual relationships with any of his clients or
22 anybody else or any entities. That would be a true
23 statement, correct?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Calls
25 for a legal conclusion. Objection.

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1 THE WITNESS: Correct.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
3 evidence that Brandon McCarthy willfully committed any
4 wrongful conduct, correct?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
6 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
7 THE WITNESS: Correct.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So can we -- is your basic
9 understanding of the word "defamation" it's a -- it's a
10 statement, whether written or oral, that tends to damage
11 somebody's reputation. Would -- would you agree with
12 that?
13 A. I would in the sense that if it's a lie,
14 correct.
15 Q. If it wasn't -- oh, I see. I see what you're
16 saying. Okay. Fair enough.
17 So it would be fair to say that you and I
18 can have an agreement that when we use the word
19 11
defamation, 11
it's -- it's a statement made by somebody
20 that causes harm to one's reputation, but -- but it's
21 not defamation it's if the truth?
22 A. That's my understanding.
23 MR. DAVID BELL: And I'm going to continue
24 to object that you're asking him to give a legal opinion
25 he's not qualified to make.

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1 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Without giving a legal

2 opinion, what is your understanding --

3 MR. DAVID BELL: So I'm objecting to your
4 question as to form.
5 MR. JAMES BELL: What is your understanding
6 of defamation based on our discussions and -- and your
7 living in the world for -- I don't know how many years.
8 Thirty-three years, 34 years.
9 THE WITNESS: I wish.
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
11 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're what?

12 A. Forty-six.
13 Q. Wow.

14 MR. DAVID BELL: How many did you say?
15 MR. JAMES BELL: I thought he was 33.
16 THE WITNESS: Appreciate that. My -- yeah,
17 my definition -- my definition would be, you know, to
18 say something about somebody that wasn't true.
19 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) And harms their

20 reputation?

21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Asks for
22 a legal conclusion.
23 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Or just saying a lie about

24 somebody?

25 A. Yeah. If -- if somebody says that -- you know,

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1 that Joe murdered somebody at the 7-Eleven last night
2 and he really didn't and they print it in the paper
3 and and it was a lie, that to me is defamation. But
4 yeah.
5 Q. Okay. Are you aware of any defamatory
6 statements that Brandon McCarthy has made?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
10 evidence of any misrepresentations Brandon McCarthy made
11 to anybody or any clients, correct?
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
13 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
14 THE WITNESS: Correct.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
16 evidence or knowledge that Brandon McCarthy breached any
17 contract towards any clients, anybody or any entity?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
19 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
20 THE WITNESS: No.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever had Brandon
22 McCarthy followed?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Have you ever had a private investigator on
25 Brandon McCarthy?

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1 A. Absolutely not.
2 Q. Are you aware of anybody that's had a private
3 investigator on Brandon McCarthy?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection to form.
5 THE WITNESS: No.
6 MR. JAMES BELL: Were you going to object
7 and instruct not to answer that?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: No. Just
9 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay.
10 MR. DAVID BELL: You just don't have any
11 time in your question. You're asking all these
12 questions about what happened since the beginning of
13 time so I've had to object as to form.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're not aware of any
15 private investigators that have investigated Brandon
16 McCarthy?
17 A. Private investigators? You mean like that are
18 privately hired in the public?
19 Q. Sure.
20 A. No.
21 Q. Are you aware of any other kind of
22 investigators?
23 A. Personally aware?
24 Q. Yes.
25 A. No.

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1 Q. Okay. So you're not you're not aware of --
2 okay. Are you -- so it would be fair to say that you've
3 never hired a private investigator to follow Brandon
4 McCarthy. That would be true?
5 A. Absolutely not . That's true. Absolutely true.
6 I've never hired anybody to do anything to Brandon
7 whatsoever.
8 Q. Okay. And do you wish ill will on Brandon?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Have -- are you aware of anybody that has hired
11 a private investigator on or did -- or somebody to
12 investigate Brandon McCarthy?
13 A. I am not.
14 Q. Okay. Do you have secondhand knowledge of
15 anybody privately investigating Brandon McCarthy or
16 publicly investigating Brandon McCarthy?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

18 THE WITNESS: I mean I had an incident at a
19 restaurant where two guys walked up to me and told me
20 that -- I was sitting there eating at Hillstone and this
21 guy put his hand on my shoulder and I kind of looked
22 around -- because it was kind of intimidating, you know,
23 he was real close to me and I looked like that
24 (indicating) and he said -- he said, Ryan, what's going
25 on? And I didn't know this guy. But I didn't want to

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1 be rude because I thought maybe I do, you know, and he
2 said I want you to know that Brandon McCarthy has a
3 connect at the IRS and this connect's going to get a guy
4 and they're going to investigate you. And and he
5 said don't worry, his own people are going to get him.
6 Don't worry about it. And walked off. And there was
7 another guy standing by the door and they both walked
8 off together (indicating) That's the only thing. It
9 was very strange.
10 Q. Did you get that person's name?
11 A. No.

12 Q. Okay. So -- just so that I understand the
13 facts. Somebody approached you in Hillstone restaurant
14 and said to you that Brandon McCarthy was having you
15 investigated? That's
16 A. They -- they specifically they said Brandon
17 McCarthy has a friend at the IRS, the friend won't be
18 doing the investigation, they're going to pass it to
19 another person and they're going to try. to get you
20 fucked off. And he said don't worry about it because
21 Brandon's own people are going to get him and he walked
22 off. And I found -- I didn't know if he was trying to
23 intimidate me or if he was -- it was a very bizarre
24 conversation.
25 Because by the time I looked back to ask

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1 who he was or figure it out, he was gone. And there was
2 another guy standing by the door and they both walked
3 out together.
4 Q. Okay. So are you -- are you aware of Brandon
5 McCarthy trying to investigate you?

6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: I mean I've heard from
8 numerous people that --

9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Let me say it a different
10 way.
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge that Brandon
13 McCarthy is investigating you?

14 A. No.
15 Q. But you've heard from secondary sources that
16 Brandon McCarthy has -- is trying to investigate you or
17 is investigating you?

18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who told you that?

20 A. A friend of mine named Carl Fleming called me
21 and said, hey, man, do you know Rob Castle and I said
22 no. And he said, well, he's my attorney. And he said
23 he called me the other day and he was freaking out. And
24 I said okay. And he said, man, I need you to meet me
25 at this restaurant. I got to talk to you about Ryan

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1 Reynolds and Carl is like, man, can we do it another
2 time. He's like no, it's important. Right now.
3 So Carl said that he went down and met
4 whoever Rob Castle is and said he -- he seemed nervous
5 and seemed like this, you know, and he said, hey, man,
6 what's Ryan doing? We need some shit on him. We're
7 going to get him -- we're going to get him in trouble.
8 You know, give me some dirt on him. What's he doing
9 now? And Carl is like I have no idea.
10 And so I guess Rob worked -- I guess the
11 way I understood it was Rob was Carl's attorney and then
12 Carl said, well, can you help me with this matter --
13 because I guess it was -- Rob wanted to talk about me
14 and he wanted to talk about some pending thing he had
15 going on. And Rob said, man, no, I'm -- you're --
16 you're fired. I'm not your attorney anymore. And he
17 goes, man, I just wanted to call you because that was
18 one of the weirdest things that -- that I've ever had
19 happen to me. And I say, man, I don't know. I don't
20 know Rob Castle, you know. So he goes do you know what
21 it and I -- and I told Carl, I said no.
22 Q. Are you -- strike that.

23 Do you have any direct evidence that

24 Brandon McCarthy failed to disclose any material

25 information or any information of any kind to any

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1 clients or anybody else?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
3 Objection; asks for a legal conclusion .
4 THE WITNESS: No.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever said that
6 Brandon McCarthy was a liar?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever said that
10 Brandon McCarthy has engaged in any unethical conduct?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form . Calls
12 no predicate. Calls for a legal conclusion.
13 MR. JAMES BELL: Let me ask it a different
14 way.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Based on the fact that you
16 have no personal knowledge that Brandon McCarthy engaged
17 any unethical conduct, did you ever tell anybody that
18 Brandon McCarthy engaged in any unethical conduct?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form .
20 THE WITNESS: I mean I've heard, you know,
21 what - -
22 MR. JAMES BELL: Answer my question,
23 please.
24 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't
25 remember. I mean maybe when these people have come to

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1 me. I mean that's not the only story that I just told
2 you about Castle. There's many more. So what I'm
3 saying is is I don't know if somebody comes to you and
4 says, hey, man, Brandon has got this hookup at the IRS
5 and be careful. You know, we heard this at a party from
6 these other IRS agents that he's going to get you -- you
7 know, try -- try to get you indicted. Could I have said
8 something then? Possibly. Do I remember, no.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So just so I
10 understand -- and maybe the deposition will be a lot
11 shorter than I thought.
12 MR. JAMES BELL: I'll object to my
13 side-bar. Do you want to sustain it?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: I don't have that power.
15 I would like to though. Thank you though.
16 MR. JAMES BELL: And I'll stipulate to --
17 if you object to my side-bar.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So would you agree with
19 me, sir, that based on the fact -- strike that.
20 Based on the fact that you don't have any
21 personal knowledge or evidence that Brandon McCarthy
22 engaged in any unethical or illegal conduct, you don't
23 recall ever saying that he engaged in any illegal or
24 unethical conduct. Would that be a fair statement?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
2 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't know
3 if I ever said, you know, maybe to all these people that
4 have been telling me these stories, I said, well --
5 well, I did to -- to Nathan Halsey.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) What did you -- what did
7 you say to Nathan Halsey?
8 A. Well, Nathan Halsey told me that Brandon sent
9 him to the FBI and had him wired up. I said, man, you
10 better be careful.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. I said you can't -- I -- I don't know if
13 Brandon did that or not. I'm not saying that he did.
14 I'm telling you what I heard secondhand. And I may have
15 said that's -- that -- you know, I may have said -- I
16 don't know if I've ever said anything I may have said
17 that's not right or whatever. But to be honest with
18 you, I always like Brandon as a person. You know, I
19 mean I never -- I think he's a nice guy, you know. And
20 so this -- you know, when this whole thing got rolling,
21 whatever has been going on and -- and that thing, it
22 just seems to get crazier and crazier. And, you know, I
23 didn't -- you know -- but I don't know -- I don't recall
24 ever saying anything like, you know, Brandon's a crook,
25 criminal or anything like that. But I'm not saying I

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1 haven't said, well, I -- I mean that's -- if that's

2 true, that's not good. But never anything that I

3 recall.

4 MR. JAMES BELL: Sorry. I got to object as

5 nonresponsive, but I appreciate your answer.

6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Let me just -- so that I'm

7 clear -- I can break this down. You've always liked

8 Brandon McCarthy, true?

9 A. I have.

10 Q. You always thought that Brandon McCarthy was a

11 nice guy irrespective of what you•ve heard from other

12 folks, at least based on your personal dealings with

13 him, correct?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And as you sit here right now, you don•t recall

16 ever saying to somebody that Brandon committed any

17 criminal acts, correct?

18 A. No.

19 Q. I may have -- I'm wrong or did I ask a bad

20 question

21 A. No.

22 Q. a double negative. It could have been my

23 fault. And I apologize.

24 A. Say it one more time.

25 Q. Sure. You don•t -- as you sit here right now,

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1 you don't recall ever saying that Brandon engaged in any

2 criminal conduct, saying that to anybody?

3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Correct?

5 A. I have -- no, I -- correct. You're correct.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. As you sit here

7 right now, you don't recall ever telling anybody that

8 Brandon has engaged in any unethical conduct based on

9 your personal knowledge, correct?

10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
11 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
12 THE WITNESS: Not on my personal conduct,
13 but I -- but I --
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Personal knowledge?

15 A. Well, just maybe secondhand knowledge. I said,
16 well, if that's true, I know that you're -- you can't do
17 that, you know, but not -- but I don't know from my
18 personal knowledge that Brandon was doing that. I'm
19 saying what these people told me -- if somebody said,
20 well, Brandon did this or, you know, he knows this
21 person at the IRS and he's trying to get you indicted, I
22 said you can't -- you can't do that.
23 And -- but I but I don't know personally
24 that Brandon has done this or but secondhand I may
25 have said that -- that you can't do that. But I've

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1 never said that he's a crook or I think that he's
2 firsthand knowledge, I don't I don't know.
3 Q. You just said that if if whatever the second
4 or thirdhand people are saying to you is true, that
5 whatever they said would be messed up?

6 A. Right. And -- and I don't know that they are
7 true. But I just said if they -- if that scenario is
8 correct, then that's not right.
9 Q. Did you ever think about picking up the phone
10 and calling Brandon?
11 A. Well, not at that point because I felt like,
12 you know, I kind of felt like he was out to get me. So
13 I didn't want to you know, I just felt like I -- I
14 didn't think that would be smart because I feel like he
15 didn't like me or was mad at me for something he
16 perceived that I did. So no, I didn't.
17 Q. What made you think that Brandon was out to get
18 you?
19 A. Well, mainly this -- you know, this supposed
20 IRS person that -- that Brandon was personal friends
21 with, supposedly was -- and I don't know this. This is
22 secondhand knowledge, but I heard -- I've heard this,
23 you know, more than once.
24 Q. Who did you hear it from?

25 A. I've heard it from two attorneys.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't tell anything that
2 you've heard from any attorneys, please.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay. And let me think for a
4 second. And just that strange conversation that I had
5 at Hillstone with those -- with that guy.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) List for me all your
7 attorneys since 2015.
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection. I'm not going
9 to let him answer any questions about who his attorneys
10 are or were.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to refuse to
12 answer my question regarding who your attorneys have
13 been since 2015?
14 A. Based on advice of my counsel, yes.
15 Q. Okay. Who drafted your motion for protective
16 order?
17 A. Mr. Bell (indicating).
18 Q. There were two motions filed; one by Mr. Bell
19 and one you filed pro se, correct?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: Correct. But -- well, he
22 wrote it.
23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So it•s your sworn
24 testimony that Mr. Bell wrote the motion for protective
25 order that you signed pro se?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him

2 to answer any questions about his attorney/client

3 relationship.

4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're going to refuse

5 to answer my question about who drafted your motion for

6 protective order that you filed in this case?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And you're going to refuse to answer my

9 question when you first met with Mr. Bell?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Did any other attorneys, other than Mr. Bell,

12 have anything to do with the motion for protective order

13 that you filed in this case?

14 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him

15 to answer any questions about any relationship, meeting,

16 or anything to do with any attorney.

17 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL} Sir, are you going to

18 refuse to answer my question whether or not any other

19 attorneys helped you draft the motion for protective

20 order that you filed in this case prior to the motion

21 that Mr. David Bell affixed his signature to?

22 A. To

23 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him

24 to testify -- I'm sorry for interrupting.

25 MR. JAMES BELL: I just need to get -- let

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1 me get a refusal from him.
2 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him
3 to answer any question that relates to any conversation,
4 meeting, with any attorney.
5 MR. JAMES BELL: I don't want to know the
6 sum and substance of your meetings.
7 The question

9 I'm sorry for speaking
10

11 That's fine. That's fine .

13 I'm not going to allow him
14 to answer any question dealing with any conversation,
15 meeting, anything to deal with any attorneys he's
16 consulted.
17 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I don't want to know the

19 sum and substance of any meeting, conversation or

20 anything you had with an attorney. What are the names

21 of the attorneys that you have met with?

22 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him
23 to answer that question for the same reasons, that those
24 are all privileged communications.
25 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm not asking for the

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1 communications.
2 MR. DAVID BELL: I know that. He's not
3 going to testify.
4 MR. JAMES BELL: So even though you know
5 that I'm not asking for the the communications, you
6 are still going to instruct the witness not to answer my
7 question?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: I'll be instructing the
9 witness not to answer any question relating to dealing
10 with, naming, anything to do with any conversation
11 you've had with any attorney, as those conversations are
12 all privileged.
13 Now, if you can show me some law.
14 MR. JAMES BELL: You're -- you're missing
15 the boat. I'm not asking --
16 MR. DAVID BELL: I know that. I know what
17 you're asking. The record is clear what you're asking.
18 I'm just saying that if you've got some law
19 that suggests that my understanding of the law is
20 contrary to what the law is --
21 MR. JAMES BELL: It is. But that's --
22 that's --
23 MR . DAVID BELL: But I --
24 MR. JAMES BELL: we'll take it up
25 MR. DAVID BELL: I'd be glad --

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1 MR. JAMES BELL: We're going to - -
2 MR. DAVID BELL: No problem.
3 MR. JAMES BELL: We're going to take it up.
4 We'll take it up. We'll take it. That's all.
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Let me finish. Let me
6 finish. I'll be glad to --
7 MR. JAMES BELL: I don't want to do the
8 filibuster.
9 THE REPORTER: I need you to not talk at
10 the same time, please.
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Yes. Don't talk at the
12 same time.
13 Go ahead, please.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} Okay. You're going to
15 refuse to answer my question about whether or not any
16 attorney helped you draft the pro se motion for
17 protective order you filed in this case?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} Are you going to refuse to
20 answer that question?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm --
22 THE WITNESS: Based on advice -- based on
23 advice of my counsel, yes.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} Okay. And in that motion
25 for protective order you asked for attorneys' fee,

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1 correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Okay. Whose attorney fees were you attempting
4 to collect when you filed that motion for protective
5 order?
6 A. Mr. Bell ' s.
7 Q. No other attorney?
8 A. Huh-uh, no .
9 Q. Even though you filed a motion pro se and asked
10 for attorneys' fees at that point in time, it's your
11 sworn testimony that the attorneys' fee you were asking
12 for when you filed your pro se motion for protective
13 order was the attorney's fee for Mr. Bell. Would that
14 be a true statement?
15 A. Yes.
16 MR. DAVID BELL: You've gone almost an
17 hour. In the next 10 or 15 minutes take a short break.
18 MR. JAMES BELL: Surely. Take five
19 minutes.
20 (Break taken)
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Going back to the first
22 meeting with Brandon McCarthy, tell me all the things
23 that you had discussed.
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
25 THE WITNESS: Well, we -- what --

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1 Mr. Kepler and I were there and what we were interested
2 in was possibly getting Brandon's help or knowledge on
3 how to get a Qui Tam case going against Ronald Schuster,
4 et cetera. From what I remember, Brandon said he had to
5 do some background checks or, you know, where you have
6 to see if their clients -- you know, run a -- whatever
7 that's called.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Brandon said he had to run
9 a conflicts check?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. Do you remember what other names you gave to
12 them that -- that day in terms of potential Qui Tams?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 THE WITNESS: I don't.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you remember the fact
16 you did give him some additional names? Like a
17 Southwest. Did you talk about Southwest?
18 Let me ask it a different way.
19 A. Is Southwest a business or a name?
20 Q. Do you recall discussing with Brandon McCarthy
21 the names of other businesses where you would like to
22 potentially pursue other Qui Tams?
23 A. I may have mentioned Donson Brooks. Maybe if
24 you can refresh my memory, I can -- I just don't
25 remember, you know, if -- if I mean I may have

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1 mentioned Donson. He's -- he ' s a local guy that that
2 I know has ripped off millions of dollars in -- you
3 know, I may have mentioned him because the dollar
4 amount. But unless you can refresh my memory, I don't.
5 Q. Did you discuss ProGen at that meeting?
6 A. It's possible.
7 Q. As you sit here right now, you don•t recall
8 discussing the name ProGen at that meeting, correct?
9 A. I mean we discussed -- you know, I know that
10 there's a lot of different names, but I don't recall
11 ProGen.
12 Q. So as you sit here right now, you don•t recall
13 discussing ProGen at that the first meeting with Brando
14 McCarthy?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. You don•t recall discussing ProGen with Brandon
17 McCarthy at the second meeting, correct?
18 A. Correct. I've never discussed ProGen with
19 Brandon McCarthy.
20 Q. So -- just so the record is clear. You•ve
21 never discussed ProGen with Brandon McCarthy, true?
22 A. True.
23 Q. And you were at the meeting trying to find out
24 how Qui Tams work, correct?
25 A. Correct.

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1 Q. And did you have any direct evidence of any
2 wrongdoing by anybody when you went to that first
3 meeting with Brandon McCarthy?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
6 THE WITNESS: No.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So when you showed up at
8 the first meeting with Brandon McCarthy, you had no
9 direct evidence, knowledge or facts to suggest that
10 anybody had committed any criminal or wrongful acts,
11 correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And the purpose of the meeting was to give the
14 names of folks that you and Gus potentially thought
15 might be engaging in criminal conduct, but y'all just
16 didn't have any evidence, correct?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
18 Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
19 THE WITNESS: Correct.
20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And so at that meeting you
21 didn't give Brandon McCarthy any evidence of any
22 wrongdoing committed by Schuster, Rall, or anybody else
23 at that meeting, correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. You didn't give Brandon McCarthy at that first

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1 meeting, or any meeting for that matter, any evidence of
2 criminal conduct, illegal conduct, unethical conduct, or
3 wrongful conduct of any kind?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Calls
5 for a legal conclusion.
6 THE WITNESS: Correct. Again, correct.
7 None
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) That --
9 A. -- none whatsoever. We didn't -- no, correct.
10 You're correct.
11 Q. We didn't -- you were going to say we didn't
12 have you and Gus had no evidence, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. And at that meeting you didn't discuss any --
15 at that meeting you didn't discuss any facts or -- or
16 evidence about any wrongful conduct any parties that
17 that you that potentially would have been Qui Tam
18 defendants, correct?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 Objection asks for a legal conclusion.
21 THE WITNESS: Correct.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) At that time neither you
23 nor Gus discussed any specifics with Brandon McCarthy
24 about any alleged wrongful conduct by Schuster, Rall or
25 anybody or any other entities that you had brought up at

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1 that meeting, correct?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; asks for a
3 legal conclusion.
4 THE WITNESS: Correct.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And Brandon told you he
6 had to run a conflicts check, correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And before he told you -- he had to run a
9 conflicts check before he could potentially or his firm
10 could potentially take on any case against anybody,
11 correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And you don't have any direct evidence that
14 Brandon McCarthy brought a Qui Tam or helped shop a Qui
15 Tam against Schuster, Rall, or any of those folks,
16 correct?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
18 Objection; asks for a legal conclusion.
19 THE WITNESS: Not -- correct. Not to my
20 knowledge .
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I want to make sure I got
22 a clear record because I ask double negatives and I
23 apologize.
24 A. That's all right.
25 Q. Okay. You don't have any direct evidence,

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1 knowledge, or facts to suggest that Brandon McCarthy
2 shopped any Qui Tams against anybody, including, but not
3 limited to Schuster, Rall Xpress, RXpress, ProGen or
4 anybody, correct?
5 A. Correct.
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 MR. JAMES BELL: Pardon me?
8 THE WITNESS: Correct.
9 MR. JAMES BELL: Just give him - -
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Give me a little time
11 delay. One second.
/

12 THE WITNESS: All right.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you or Kepler show
14 McCarthy any presentations at this meeting?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did -- have you seen any -- actually, let me
17 back up. In your objections and motion for protective
18 order you said that you're a witness against Brandon
19 McCarthy in another matter. What matter are you
20 referring to? Especially if you don't have any personal
21 knowledge that he did anything wrong, what are you a
22 witness against Brandon McCarthy for?
23 A. Well --
24 Q. If you don't know, you don't know.
25 A. Yeah. I don't know.

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1 Q. Okay. So you don't know whether or not you're
2 a witness against Brandon McCarthy. True?
3 A. I don't, no.
4 Q. It would be fair to say you don't know whether
5 or not you're a witness against Brandon McCarthy. True?
6 A. True.
7 Q. And when you said that, even though you said
8 you were a witness against strike that.
9 Even though you said you're a witness --
10 strike that.
11 What did you mean when you said you were a
12 witness against the plaintiff, meaning Brandon McCarthy,
13 in another matter? Or is that just a mistake that you
14 made in the pleading that you signed?
15 A. Well, I don't know of any you know, I don't
16 know of any what it potentially would be. But like I
17 said, a lot of it comes down to all of the stuff going
18 on with what I've been hearing about the IR I mean I
19 don't know. I guess I -- I don't know. So
20 Q. The IRS?
21 A. Well, I mean as far as what I've been hearing
22 that he's been trying to do to me. But as in a as in
23 another case or whatever, I don't know anything no, I
24 don't know that I'm a witness in any case against him.
25 Q. Okay. So you don't have any facts that he's --

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1 well, let -- let me ask you this question.
2 Are you aware of the IRS investigating
3 Brandon McCarthy?
4 A. No.

5 Q. Okay. So are you aware of any case against
6 Brandon McCarthy?
7 A. No.

8 Q. Are you aware of any investigation against
9 Brandon McCarthy?
10 A. Directly?
11 Q. (Indicates.)
12 A. No.

13 Q. Do you have any indirect knowledge about any
14 investigation against Brandon McCarthy, other than what
15 you learned at Hillstone and from that other guy?
16 A. No. Basically what that guy told me.
17 Q. So - -
18 A. I don't even know who the guy is. So it's
19 just
20 Q. Hearsay?
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. So at -- as it stands right now -- you're not
23 aware of being a witness against Brandon McCarthy any
24 other matter, case, investigation. True?
25 A. True.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don•t have any direct
3 evidence that Brandon McCarthy is trying to get you
4 criminally prosecuted, correct?

5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Did you consider Brandon McCarthy your friend?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Do you think -- strike that.
9 Do you know whether or not Brandon McCarthy
10 has been harmed?
11 A. I don't know --

12 MR. DAVID BELL: Calls for a legal

13 conclusion. Objection; form.
14 THE WITNESS: I don't know because I don't
15 know the facts of everything. Like I said, all I've --
16 the stuff I heard is all from, you know, Carl Fleming,
17 the guy at Hillstone. Not directly.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Well, he's no longer at
19 K&L Gates, right?
20 A. Right.

21 Q. Okay.
22 A. From what I heard.

23 Q. Okay. And did you have any -- did you --

24 strike that.
25 Let me ask you this question.

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1 Have you had any contact with K&L Gates?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. And did you -- what did you tell K&L
4 Gates about Brandon McCarthy?
5 A. What I heard from Nathan Halsey.

6 Q. And how many times have you met with K&L Gates?

7 A. I've never met with them. This was on the

8 phone.
9 Q. Okay. How many times have you had a -- been on
10 a telephone call with K&L Gates?

11 A. One time (indicating) .

12 Q. Who did you speak to at K&L Gates?

13 A. I don't even remember.
14 Q. Who were you with on the phone call?

15 (Phone rang)

16 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm sorry.

17 (Pause in proceedings)

18 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Who was with you when you
19 were on the phone call with K&L Gates or did they call
20 you directly?
21 A. No, it was a set up call and two attorneys were
22 with me.
23 Q. What are the names of those attorneys?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't answer any questions
25 about any attorneys that have represented you or given

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1 you legal advice.
2 THE WITNESS: On the advice of counsel I'm
3 going to
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} Are you going to refuse to
5 answer the question about who you were on the call with
6 to K&L Gates regarding K&L Gates• investigation of
7 Brandon McCarthy?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objectioni form.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} What did Nathan Halsey --
11 strike that.
12 What did -- what did you tell K&L Gates
13 about what Nathan Halsey told you?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objectioni form.
15 THE WITNESS: Nathan told me that Brandon
16 sent him -- that -- well, what was going on with Nathan
17 was this, was that he had
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Just answer his question.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay.
20 MR. JAMES BELL: That's all right. You can
21 start wherever you want.
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Just answer his question.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay. Repeat that one more
24 time.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} Sure. What did you tell

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1 K&L Gates -- strike that.
2 You didn't have any personal knowledge of
3 any wrongdoing to give to K&L Gates, correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And so you discussed what Nathan Halsey
6 allegedly told you about Brandon McCarthy, right?

7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Okay. What did Nathan Halsey tell you about

9 Brandon McCarthy?
10 A. That he sent him to the FBI to meet with an FBI
11 agents -- or agent and that he had been sent out to get
12 information on Schuster, Rall, et cetera. And he said
13 that the third time that he went down there to get the
14 wire -- because they wanted more information -- that the
15 agent -- Nathan was real worried because he said the
16 agent was like we don't need you anymore, we don't have
17 any wires down there. And I said that's not true. They
18 got plenty of wires down there, Nathan.
19 And he, man, it's just weird because I was
20 giving them all this good information and then all of a
21 sudden they told me to go home. And I said -- I just
22 told him I wouldn't be messing with those people. I
23 said I don't know -- you know, he was concerned about an
24 SEC case that he had and he was concerned about it going
25 criminal. And so, you know, I think he felt like he

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1 needed to do something.
2 But he told me that -- that Brandon had
3 directed him down there or maybe told him who to go to,
4 I'm not sure. But that's basically what Nathan told me.
5 Q. It is possible that you could be confused about
6 who Nathan Halsey was getting wired up for? Is that --
7 let me state it a different way.
8 Are you aware or not aware that Nathan
9 Halsey was wired up, got a tape recording of Mr. Bob
10 Miller from Trilogy Pharmacy? Are you aware of that?
11 A. Is he Asian? The -- an Asian guy?
12 MR. JAMES BELL: If I don't know if he's an
13 Asian or not. Trilogy though.
14 THE WITNESS: Trilogy. I -- I don't
15 remember exactly, you know, because -- like I said,
16 those -- it all gets kind of convoluted to me. All
17 there's so many different companies and people. So ...
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I -- I get that there is
19 and I'm here is the deal. I get a chance to take
20 your depo, you're under oath, I just want to
21 A. All right. Ask me one more time.
22 Q. If you don't know, it's cool.
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. I don't care and then I'm -- I'm moving on.
25 All right.

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1 Is it possible that Nathan Halsey, when he
2 told you that he got wired up and was talking to the FBI
3 and made a recording, it was for -- it was of a man
4 named Mr. Bob Miller from Trilogy? Is that possible?
A. AhRol 11t.P.l y.

6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 MR. JAMES BELL: What's that?
8 THE WITNESS: Absolutely.
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So if that's
11 possible, it's also possible that Nathan didn't tell you
12 that he was wired up for Schuster, RXpress, et cetera,
13 correct?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
15 THE WITNESS: Correct.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And so you don't
17 know whether or not Halsey was meeting with FBI
18 regarding the Trilogy case, correct?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. You don't have any direct evidence that Halsey
21 was meeting with any law enforcement folks regarding
22 Rall, Schuster, or any of those folks, correct? You
23 don't have direct knowledge of that, correct?
24 A. Well, I didn't -- the DOD came to his house and
25 took his phone, but I wasn't there.

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1 Q. You don't have any direct knowledge that
2 that Nathan Halsey was cooperating with law enforcement
3 regarding Schuster, Rall, or any of those folks,
4 correct?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Okay. And are you aware, sir, that the reason
7 why the DOD came to his house and got his phone was for
8 a recording that he had with Mr. Bob Miller from Trilogy
9 Pharmacy? Were you aware of that?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Is that news to you?
12 A. Yes. He explained it differently to me. So
13 that's news to me, yes, if that's true.
14 Q. Okay. And -- well, let me ask you this
15 question.
16 Is it possible that you remembered it
17 differently?
18 A. No, he -- I mean Nathan told me that the DOD
19 called him. He called Reed Prospere and said they
20 wanted his phone and Reed said, well, let me look at it
21 and I'll call you back. And he said the next morning at
22 5:00 a.m. they showed up and got his phone.
23 Q. With a search warrant?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And so

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1 MR. JAMES BELL: I don't know -- I'm
2 bleeding right there.
3 MR. DAVID BELL: It's self-inflicted, let
4 the record reflect.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So -- so you're
6 not -- you don't have any direct evidence that Halsey
7 and Brandon were shopping a Qui Tam against Schuster,
8 Rall, or any of those folks, correct?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
10 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
11 THE WITNESS: Correct.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And at some point in time
13 Halsey -- are you aware of whether or not Halsey did
14 file a Qui Tam case?
15 A. I'm not.
16 Q. Do you know whether or not Halsey filed a Qui
17 Tam case against the Trilogy Pharmacy?
18 A. Not that I'm aware of.
19 Q. Is it possible that you mixed up Trilogy,
20 Express, different pharmacies, just because there's a
21 lot going on, like you said earlier?
22 A. It's possible. But Halsey's deal was not -- he
23 was more worried about, you know, he showed me his
24 complaint with the SEC and I told him that in my opinion
25 this is a -- could possibly be referred to the

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1 Department of Justice. But he was more concerned with
2 all of that, I mean, than -- so the answer to your
3 question is it's possible, I don't know what he was
4 looking at doing. But -- but from my perspective, he
5 was more trying to get himself out of trouble than
6 anything else that concerns any companies or any other
7 individuals, including a Qui Tarn case.
8 Q. So Halsey was more concerned about getting
9 himself out of trouble with the SEC, right?
10 A. Well, and -- and not and -- and hoping that --
11 you know, not be referred to the Department of Justice.
12 So both of those. I think -- so yes, correct, the SEC.
13 Q. And so -- and in terms of you repeating what
14 Halsey says, you would agree with me that it gets fuzzy
15 between different -- the different names of different
16 fuzzies in terms of your recollection, given the fact
17 that it was over it was two years ago or over two
18 years ago. Would that be fair?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection -- objection;
20 form.
21 THE WITNESS: Yes.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
23 evidence that Brandon McCarthy has anything to do with
24 the Dallas Morning News article?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 Objection.
2 THE WITNESS: Not direct, no.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any -- so let
4 me state it a different way. Strike that.
5 It would be a fair statement to say you
6 don't have any evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest
7 that Brandon McCarthy had anything to do with any Dallas
8 Morning News articles. True?
9 A. True.
10 Q. It would also be true to say that you don't
11 have any direct evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest
12 that Brandon McCarthy has supplied Kevin Krause with any
13 information about any clients, potential clients, or any
14 other folks for that matter. True?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 THE WITNESS: I don't have direct evidence,
17 true.
18 MR. JAMES BELL: Did I throw that back in
19 there. I can't remember.
20 (Pause in proceedings)
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you -- were you -- you
22 were convicted of -- just by way of background, so that
23 I understand, conspiracy to conunit securities fraud.
24 And was it conspiracy to conunit wire fraud and mail
25 fraud or were -- did you get the actual charges?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Mr. Reynolds is not going
2 to testify about anything -- though those things are
3 on
4 MR. JAMES BELL: They're less than ten
5 years old.
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Let me -- let me finish,
7 please. Some of those things that you're inquiring
8 about are part of the public record. He's just not
9 going to testify about any matter regarding any of this
10 line of questioning.
11 MR. JAMES BELL: Sure.
12 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not a party to this
13 lawsuit and I'm not going to let him testify about
14 anything. He answered your one question about he having
15 previously been convicted. That's all he's going to
16 talk about any of his prior criminal matters.
17 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to refuse to

18 answer my question about --

19 MR. DAVID BELL: And I'm advising him not
20 to answer those questions.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to refuse to

22 answer my question about being convicted of wire fraud,

23 securities fraud and mail fraud, correct?

24 A. Correct.
25 Q. You've also been cited for contempt of court,

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1 correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And tell Judge Tillery what was that for.
4 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm going to object to
5 that. If it's public record, you can produce those
6 documents for whomever.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
8 answer my question about asking you to tell Judge
9 Tillery why you were cited for contempt?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: He's going to testify in
11 front of Judge Tillery. He's just not going to answer
12 any questions as he is not a party to this lawsuit. And
13 you may present the public record to whomever. But he's
14 not going to answer any questions about any criminal
15 matter.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
17 answer my question why you were cited for criminal
18 contempt -- strike that.
19 Are you going to refuse to answer my
20 question about why you were cited for contempt?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. I don't
22 think he can tell you why any of those things happened.
23 If -- that's a matter that involves some court and
24 some authority higher then him or you or I.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to

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1 answer my question about why you were cited for
2 contempt?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm advising him to refuse
4 to answer -- respectfully refuse to answer your
5 questions.
6 MR. JAMES BELL: I need to get a refusal
7 MR. DAVID BELL: He's going to -- he's
8 going to --
9 MR. JAMES BELL: So go ahead.
10 THE WITNESS: Correct.
11 MR. JAMES BELL: No. No. I need to get a
12 clean record.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Sure.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
15 answer my question about why you were cited for
16 contempt?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. Do you know Braden Power?
19 A. Who? Can you repeat that question?
20 Q. Sure. Do you know Braden Power?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Do you know Craig Power?
23 A. No.
24 MR. DAVID BELL: P-0-W-E-R, Counsel? Oh,
25 is this the related case that you filed with the Court,

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1 said it was related? Is that the one? Oh, this is the
2 case Braden Richard Power and Craig Patrick Power.
3 Is that what you're asking about? Do you know those
4 people?
5 THE WITNESS: No.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you aware -- strike
7 that.
8 Do you have any direct evidence, knowledge,
9 or facts to suggest that Brandon McCarthy breached or
10 violated any of the Texas Disciplinary Rules of
11 Professional Conduct?
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
13 legal conclusion.
14 THE WITNESS: No.
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
17 evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest that Brian --
18 strike that.
19 Brandon McCarthy didn't provide competent
20 and diligent representation to all of his clients?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
22 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
23 THE WITNESS: No.
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Are these all the same
25 questions you are asking again. He will answer the same

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1 way. And I would object the same way if you want to
2 MR. JAMES BELL: Just have a running
3 objection. Go ahead.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
5 evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest that Brandon
6 McCarthy violated any conflicts of interests as it
7 relates to any of his clients?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; calls for a
9 legal conclusion. Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS: No.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
12 evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest that Brandon
13 McCarthy has been adversarial towards any of his
14 clients?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Calls for a legal
16 conclusion. Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: No.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) All right. Are you taking
19 any medications today that would affect your testimony?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Are you taking any medications?
22 A. Well, I have a prescription.
23 Q. For what?
24 A. Adderall.
25 Q. So you've taken Adderall today?

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1 A. I haven't today.
2 Q. Are you under -- have you taken any pills
3 today?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Any drugs or anything?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Just have to ask. Who is Cameron Smith?
8 A. She is a lawyer that represented me in my case
9 with my ex when I got out. I guess child custody. She
10 represented me in the child custody case.
11 Q. Has Cameron Smith represented you in any other
12 matter?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to let him
14 testify about any relationship he has or has had with
15 any lawyer .
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you refuse to answer my
17 question about whether or not Cameron Smith has
18 represented you in any other matter besides a child
19 custody case?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm advising him not to --
21 THE WITNESS: On the advice of my counsel,
22 I'm not going to answer that.
23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever worked for
24 Cameron Smith?
25 A. No.

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1 Q. Have you ever worked for Jim Rolfe?
2 A. No.

3 Q. Have you ever been paid by Cameron Smith?
4 A. No.

5 Q. Have you ever been paid by Jim Rolfe?
6 A. No.

7 Q. What do you do for a living?
8 A. Right now I'm not doing much.
9 Q. What are you doing for a living?
10 A. Nothing.
11 Q. How are you earning a living?
12 A. I'm really not at this point, unfortunately.
13 Q. Have you accepted any money in connection with
14 any pharmacies?
15 A. No.

16 Q. Have you received any money in connection
17 with accepted any money that could be related to
18 Brandon McCarthy?
19 A. No.
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever received any
22 type of payments regarding any -- anything to do with
23 any potential Qui Tams?
24 A. No.

25 Q. So you've never been paid to be witness?

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1 A. No.
2 Q. And at some point you offered to pay Nathan
3 Halsey $2,000, correct?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
6 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) And you don't recall
7 offering Nathan Halsey $2,000 for some kind of book?
8 A. No.

9 Q. Is it possible that you offered Nathan Halsey
10 $2,000 for a book?
11 A. I don't believe so.
12 Q. So you're denying that you offered Nathan
13 Halsey $2,000 for any type of book, PowerPoint
14 presentation, treaties, article, or otherwise?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
17 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're denying that,
18 true?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did you ever tell Nathan Halsey that you needed
21 an IRS guy, Rolfe wants to call him because he heard
22 through the -- through a friend of his in the IRS that
23 Brandon and Nathan were trying to get an investigation
24 going on me so he wants to call him or, I guess, Gus
25 Kepler?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that? I
3 don't -- I don't understand that.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sure. Did you ever tell
5 Gus Kepler or Nathan Halsey that you needed an IRS guy
6 because Rolfe wants to call him?
7 A. About what?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: He just asked you.
9 THE WITNESS: No, I mean -- no.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you still friends with
11 Gus Kepler?
12 A. I think so.
13 Q. Have you traded any shares in the last couple
14 of years?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 THE WITNESS: Traded shares, what do you
17 mean?
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Stock shares?
19 A. I'm going to plead the Fifth on that. I'm not
20 going to talk about any of my business or anything of
21 that nature.
22 Q. So you're taking the Fifth Amendment about
23 whether or not you have sold, solicited, related to your
24 stock shares?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not going to testify

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1 about any matter involving
2 THE WITNESS: I am, yes.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're taking the Fifth

4 Amendment?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to take the
7 Fifth Amendment about whether or not you've attempted to
8 sell shares to Brandon McCarthy?

9 A. I am. On the advice of counsel.
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Why don't you read that?
11 THE WITNESS: On advice of counsel, I
12 respectfully decline to answer the question. I instead
13 invoke my privilege against compelled self-incrimination
14 secured by the Fifth and 14th Amendment to the U.S.
15 Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Texas,
16 even though invocation of the privilege is in no respect
17 an admission or acknowledgement of criminal conduct as
18 it is instead recognition that a response could simply
19 supply a "link in the chain of evidence" which could be
20 used against in criminal prosecution.
21 (Exhibit No. 1 was marked)
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Go ahead and state the
23 authority that you're making that statement.
24 THE WITNESS: E.g. Hoffman v. United
25 States, an individual may be (sic) compelled to provide

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1 testimony --
2 MR. DAVID BELL: May not.
3 THE WITNESS: May not be compelled to
4 provide testimony which could supply "a link in the
5 chain of evidence" which could be use against him in
6 criminal prosecution.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true --
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Let him finish, please.
9 THE COURT: Invocation of this privilege
10 against compelled self-incrimination is not and should
11 not be considered
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Construed
13 THE WITNESS: Construed as an admission of
14 criminal conduct. One of the basic functions of the
15 Fifth Amendment is to protect innocent men. Grunewald
16 v. United States. Truthful responses of an innocent
17 witness, as well those of a wrongdoer, may provide the
18 government with incriminating evidence from the
19 speaker's own mouth. Ohio v. Reiner.
20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that you
21 attempted and did, in fact, sell stock to Nathan Halsey
22 and Gus Kepler?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection. Go ahead and
24 repeat -- can we have a
25 If you'd mark that as an exhibit. Would

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1 you like him to read it again or just say --

2 MR. JAMES BELL: I just want him to say I

3 invoke the Fifth Amendment and -- and Exhibit 1.

4 MR. DAVID BELL: Just say --

5 MR. JAMES BELL: That's fine.

6 MR. DAVID BELL: And recite my invoking the

7 Fifth Amendment and would repeat if you wish me to what

8 I just read.

9 THE WITNESS: I invoke the Fifth Amendment

10 and would repeat this if you would like me to.

11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Just so I have a clean

12 record. You're taking the -- did you sell or attempt to

13 sell stock to Nathan Halsey and/or Gus Kepler?

14 MR. DAVID BELL: Go ahead.

15 THE WITNESS: I'm going to plead the Fifth

16 Amendment.

17 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And did you ever attempt

18 to sell stock to Ryan Myers or Barrett Howell at K&L

19 Gates

20 MR. DAVID BELL: Same objection. Would you

21 repeat --

22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you plead the Fifth?

23 A. Yeah.

24 MR. DAVID BELL: And

25 THE WITNESS: And

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: -- you'll gladly read this
2 back into the record.
3 THE WITNESS: I will gladly read this back
4 into the record.
5 MR. JAMES BELL: You can just say "I plead
6 the Fifth Amendment plus Exhibit 1. Is that fair?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Sure.
8 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
9 MR. DAVID BELL: And -- and let's say plus
10 Exhibit 1 and I have asked if you prefer me to read it
11 or just merely reference it.
12 MR. JAMES BELL: I'll just stipulate.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. That's fine. Thank
14 you.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever represented

16 in the last year or two folks as a broker?

17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Go ahead
18 and recite the --
19 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
20 1.

21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you under a

22 restriction from being involved in the trading or

23 selling of stock?

24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection.
25 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit

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1 1.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you ever -- did you --
3 strike that.
4 Isn't it true, sir, that you told Brandon
5 McCarthy that he should invest in some stocks and that
6 those stocks would go up in value?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection.
8 THE WITNESS: I plead Fifth, Exhibit 1.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that you
10 wanted Brandon McCarthy to invest $50,000 spread among
11 several stocks?
12 A. I plead the Fifth, Exhibit 1.
13 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that you told Brandon
14 McCarthy that -- strike that.
15 Isn't it true, sir, that the reason why you
16 have a vendetta against Brandon McCarthy is because he
17 refused to buy any stocks that you wanted to sell him?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
19 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth, Exhibit 1.
20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you ever -- strike
21 that
22 You've texted Nathan Halsey and you said,
23 just to clarify, my friend Cameron Smith, who represents
24 Rall, was hired by the SEC to prosecute a case against
25 UDF. She doesn't represent UDF. Just wanted to make

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1 that clear so there wasn't a misunderstanding between
2 us. Have a great weekend.
3 Do you remember writing that text?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Repeat your objection.
5 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
6 1.

7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you say that Cameron
8 Smith was hired by the SEC to prosecute a case?
9 A. I plead the Fifth, see Exhibit 1.
10 Q. Do you ever say that Jim Rall was hired to
11 prosecute cases, including one against Brandon McCarthy?
12 A. I plead the Fifth, Exhibit 1.
13 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that you threatened Nathan
14 Halsey by saying that Prosecutor Bowie was going to go
15 after him?
16 A. I plead the Fifth, Exhibit 1.
17 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that you said that you had
18 influence and that Prosecutor Bowie was a friend of
19 yours and that you could control his decision making;
20 isn't that true, sir?
21 A. I plead the Fifth. Exhibit 1.
22 Q. Isn't it true that you have threatened Nathan
23 Halsey with criminal prosecution?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
25 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit

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1 1.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that you,
3 along with Jim Rolfe and Cameron Smith, have threatened
4 to prosecute Brandon McCarthy?
5 MR. JAMES BELL: Objection; form.
6 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
7 1.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that you,
9 Jim Rolfe and Cameron Smith have threatened to try and
10 prosecute Nathan Halsey?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
12 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
13 1.

14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true sir
15 isn't it true, sir, that you, Jim Rolfe and Cameron
16 Smith have made false statements about -- about Brandon
17 McCarthy?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
19 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
20 1.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that you,
22 Jim Rolfe and Cameron Smith have attempted to extort
23 Brandon McCarthy?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
25 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit

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1 1.
2 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that you,
3 Jim Rolfe and Cameron Smith have conspired to extort and
4 damage Brandon McCarthy?

5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

6 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit

7 1.
8 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
9 evidence that Brandon McCarthy sent Nathan Halsey to
10 become an informant, correct?

11 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

12 THE WITNESS: Not besides what Nathan told

13 me, no.
14 MR. JAMES BELL: Objection; nonresponsive.

15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any direct
16 evidence that Brandon McCarthy sent Nathan Halsey out to
17 become an informant, correct?

18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

19 THE WITNESS: No.

20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Correct?

21 A. Correct.
22 Q. Do you remember talking about a book?

23 MR. DAVID BELL: The same book you asked
24 about before?

25 MR. JAMES BELL: Yeah.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Asked and answered.
2 Do you remember him asking you about a book
3 before?
4 THE WITNESS: Him?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Yeah, Mr. Bell.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes.
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Would you answer the same
8 way?
9 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I plead the Fifth.
10 Exhibit 1.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So you're going to
12 take the Fifth Amendment about -- strike that.
13 You're now taking the Fifth Amendment about
14 whether or not you offered to purchase a book from Gus
15 Kepler for $2,000?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
18 1.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) When you offered to
20 purchase a book from Gus Kepler, what book were you
21 attempting to purchase?
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
24 1.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true, sir, that

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1 you, Jim Rolfe and Cameron Smith already had this
2 alleged book that you refer to in your text with Nathan
3 Halsey?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
6 1.

7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true, sir, that
8 the reason why you offered Nathan Halsey $2,000 for a
9 book is because you, Cameron Smith and Jim Rolfe already
10 possessed that book?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
12 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. Exhibit
13 1.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How were you going to pay
15 $2,000 to get a book from Nathan Halsey?
16 A. I plead the Fifth. Exhibit 1.
17 Q. Is it your sworn testimony, sir, under oath
18 that Brandon McCarthy had that book that you reference
19 in your text messages with Nathan Halsey?
20 A. Repeat that.
21 Q. Sure. Is it your sworn testimony that Brandon
22 McCarthy had a copy of the book that you reference in
23 your text messages with Nathan Halsey?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
25 THE WITNESS: I have no idea.

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1 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) So, in other words, you
2 , have no direct evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest
3 that Brandon McCarthy had or seen any -- any book that
4 you reference in the text messages with Nathan Halsey,
5 true?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: I don't know anything about a
8 book -- I I have no direct evidence about any kind of
9 book that has to do with Brandon.
10 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So it would be fair
11 to say that you're not aware -- strike that.
12 It would be fair to say that you don't have
13 any direct evidence, knowledge, or facts, to suggest
14 that Brandon McCarthy has anything to do with any book
15 that you discussed with Nathan Halsey, true?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: That's true.
18 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) So what book were you
19 ref erring to when you were text messaging Nathan Halsey?
20 A. I have no -- I have no idea.
21 Q. Did you remember seeing any kind of PowerPoint
22 presentation?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Have you ever seen a PowerPoint presentation?
25 I'll remind you you're under oath.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: Well, in reference to what?
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Reference to anything that
4 Brandon -- anything anybody says Brandon McCarthy had
5 anything to do with?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: No .
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You haven't seen any
9 PowerPoints?
10 A. Not that I recall.
11 Q. Did you see any bound -- did you ever see a
12 bound book?
13 A. No.
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) When you said to Nathan
16 Halsey, would $2,000 help, cash, and he said for what,
17 and you said copy of that.
18 When you said "copy of that," what were you
19 ref erring to?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
22 Exhibit 1.
23 (Mr. McCarthy left the proceedings)
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're going to plead
25 the Fifth Amendment regarding asking Nathan -- strike

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1 that.
2 You're going to plead the Fifth Amendment
3 with respect to offering Nathan Halsey $2,000 cash for a
4 copy of something that you reference in the text
5 messages with him, correct?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
8 Exhibit 1.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So when you say you
10 plead -- what did a "copy of that" refer to in your text
11 messages with Nathan Halsey?
12 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to plead the
15 Fifth as to what you meant strike that --
16 You're going to plead the Fifth Amendment
17 or you are pleading the Fifth Amendment when you said
18 you're willing to pay $2,000 for a copy of that?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 THE WITNESS: Correct.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Can you tell Judge Tillery
22 what, quote, a copy of that was?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
25 Exhibit 1.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you have a copy of a
2 book, treatise, PowerPoint, prior to offering Nathan
3 Halsey $2,000?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
6 Exhibit 1.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Were you instructed by
8 anybody to offer Nathan Halsey $2,000 for a copy of a
9 book or PowerPoint?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
11 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
12 Exhibit 1.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true, sir, that
14 Cameron Smith and Jim Rolfe instructed you to offer
15 Nathan Halsey $2,000 for a copy of a book?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth . See
18 Exhibit 1.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Where did you, Jim Rolfe
20 and Cameron Smith get a copy of that book?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
22 THE WITNESS: I don't have a copy of the
23 book, nor have I ever seen a copy of the book.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You pled the Fifth
25 Amendment with respect to a book. Do you know what book

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1 I'm talking about? Or are you going to plead the Fifth
2 Amendment to that?
3 A. I'm going to plead the Fifth on whatever book
4 you're talking about.
5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you seen a
7 presentation -- strike that.
8 Isn't it true, sir, that you've seen a copy
9 of a PowerPoint or a book in presence of Cameron Smith
10 and Jim Rolfe?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
12 THE WITNESS: No, that's not true.
13 (Mr. McCarthy entered the proceedings)
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you aware -- who --
15 strike that.
16 Who told you to offer Nathan Halsey $2,000
17 for a copy of a book?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
19 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
20 Exhibit 1.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Who gave you the money to
22 potentially pay Nathan Halsey for a copy of the book
23 that you reference in your text messages with Nathan
24 Halsey?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See

2 Exhibit 1.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that the
4 book that you reference in your text messages with
5 Nathan Halsey was what was going to be used to extort
6 Brandon McCarthy?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

8 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See

9 Exhibit 1.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that --

11 MR. DAVID BELL: Excuse me. Also calls for
12 a legal conclusion.

13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true, sir, that
14 the reason why you, Rolfe, and Cameron Smith needed the
15 book from Nathan Halsey is to fabricate and fraudulently
16 make claims to extort Brandon McCarthy? Isn't that

17 true?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

19 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See

20 Exhibit 1.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't the reason why you,
22 Jim Rolfe, and Cameron Smith tried to get a book from
23 Nathan Halsey and offer him $2,000 is to frame Brandon
24 McCarthy for something he didn't do?

25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 THE WITNESS: Of course not. Frame him for
2 what? I don't even understand where you're going with
3 this.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You don't have any
5 evidence that anybody's tried to frame Brandon McCarthy
6 for anything?
7 A. Absolutely not.
8 Q. Do you have any evidence that -- that -- so
9 then why are you refusing to talk about this book and
10 pleading the Fifth?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
12 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
13 Exhibit 1.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How -- does the the
15 book fabricate and fraudulently attempt to to to
16 implicate Brandon McCarthy in some kind of wrongful

17 conduct?
18 A. I can't tell you about --
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

20 THE WITNESS: something I've never seen.

21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. Why were you
22 offering money to Nathan Halsey for something -- $2,000
23 to Nathan Halsey for something you had never seen?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

25 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See

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Page 96
1 Exhibit 1.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Why were you asking Nathan
3 Halsey for a copy of a book that you had never seen?
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
6 Exhibit 1.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How did you know that
8 Nathan Halsey had a book if you had never seen it?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
11 Exhibit 1.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How did you first learn
13 about the book that you reference in your text messages
14 with Nathan Halsey?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
17 Exhibit 1.
18 I would like to go on the record and state
19 that I've never heard anybody try to get Brandon, try to
20 obtain evidence against Brandon, or ask me, hey, let's
21 go get him, let's go find this. Never has one person
22 ever said that about -- to me about Brandon, ever.
23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) But you're including
24 attorneys, correct?
25 A. No . I'm talking about I've never had anybody.

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1 Q. Okay. Here -- here --
2 A. Tell me let's go get him, let's figure
3 something out, let's conspire, let's find some stuff
4 against him. Not -- no one has ever come to me and
5 tried to get Brandon come up with some way to get
6 Brandon messed up, screwed up, what have you .
7 MR. DAVID BELL: He's going to not talk to
8 you about anything involving anything dealing with any
9 attorney, period, end of report.
10 Is that correct?
11 THE WITNESS: Correct.
12 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So when you just
13 answered that question, that excluded any comments from
14 any attorneys, correct?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not going to answer
16 that question.
17 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth . See
18 Exhibit 1.
19 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to refuse to
20 answer my question about whether or not any attorney
21 ever told you that they wanted to plant, fabricate, or
22 fraudulently make up information in order to implicate
23 Brandon McCarthy in some sort of unethical conduct?
24 A. I've never had
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 THE WITNESS: I've never had anybody,
2 including any attorneys that I know, ever ask or -- ask
3 me to participate in -- nor would I -- getting Brandon
4 in any sort of trouble.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Why are you offering
6 $2,000 for a book?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
9 Exhibit 1.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Who asked you to talk to
11 K&L Gates?
12 MR. DAVID BELL : Objection; form.
13 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
14 Exhibit 1.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) On the one hand, sir, you
16 say to me that nobody has ever told you that they want
17 any anything wrong to happen to Brandon McCarthy,
18 correct?
19 A. That's absolutely correct.
20 Q. On the other hand, you're taking the Fifth
21 Amendment as to who told you to contact K&L Gates,
22 you're taking the Fifth Amendment, correct?
23 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
24 Q. And the reason that you spoke -- strike that.
25 Your understanding of the reason why you

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Page 99
1 were speaking to K&L Gates is to talk alleged misconduct
2 of Brandon McCarthy?
3 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
4 Q. Can you tell Judge Tillery why you were tape --
5 telling Nathan Halsey that you were introducing Gus to
6 the heads of IPOs for Stevens & Company?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
9 Exhibit 1.
10 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you ever been in the
11 health care business?
12 A. I haven't been as of right now. But I've been
13 looking at different -- different businesses in there,
14 but not I've never -- I guess you have to be more
15 specific. Made -- have I ever made money off of health
16 care?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: No. He just asked --
18 THE WITNESS: No, I haven't .
19 MR. DAVID BELL: if you've ever been in
20 the health care business?
21 THE WITNESS: No, I haven't .
22 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you personally aware
23 of any criminal conduct committed by anybody in the
24 health care business?
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objectionj form.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Direct evidence.

2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
3 THE WITNESS: Direct evidence as in
4 paperwork?
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
6 knowledge or direct evidence that anybody's conunitted
7 any wrong criminal conduct in the health care
8 business?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. In the
10 whole wide world, Counsel?
11 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm going to start there
12 and then I'm going to narrow it down.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. Why don't you start
14 with narrow.
15 THE WITNESS: No direct evidence.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So as you sit here right
17 now, you don't have any I don't need to narrow it
18 down now. So you don't
19 MR. JAMES BELL: And I'll object to my
20 side-bar.
21 MR. DAVID BELL: No problem.
22 MR. JAMES BELL: I appreciate that. Sorry.

23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) It would be fair to say
24 that you don't have any direct evidence or knowledge or
25 facts to suggest that anybody has conunitted any criminal

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1 wrongdoing or criminal misconduct or unlawful conduct
2 who is in the health care space, true?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 THE WITNESS: I've had people come to me
5 and
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I'm talking about your
7 direct knowledge.
8 A. Direct knowledge from the person that's being
9 investigated?
10 Q. No. It's about what you've witnessed, seen,
11 touched, right? Remember we talked about that earlier?
12 A. Yeah.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 THE WITNESS: No direct evidence.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So is it fair to say that
16 you don't have direct knowledge, facts, or evidence to
17 suggest that anybody's committed any criminal conduct in
18 the health care space, correct?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 THE WITNESS: Correct.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Now, you've also said that
22 you -- folks have come to you, correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Okay. About -- who -- who -- who came to you
25 about who's committing alleged misconduct in the health

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1 care space?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
3 THE WITNESS: I mean it's all the time.
4 You know, people tell me things. You mean, Forest Park?
5 Who are you talking about?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Let him ask you a question
7 so you can answer it.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir, can you tell -- tell
9 us what black box is?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
11 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
12 Exhibit 1.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you on Instagram as
14 mystockbuy?
15 A. I plead the Fifth . See Exhibit 1.
16 Q. Do you put your brokerage account out on
17 Instagram?
18 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1 .
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Tell the folks about
21 BioNovelus, Inc.
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
24 Exhibit 1.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Isn't it true that you

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Page 103
1 tried to get Brandon McCarthy to buy stock in
2 BioNovelus, Inc.?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
5 Exhibit 1.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
7 evidence, knowledge, or facts of anybody that's
8 presented a false, fictitious or fraudulent claim to
9 the -- to any department of United States?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Asks for
11 a legal conclusion.
12 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that?
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sure. Do you have any
14 direct evidence, knowledge, or facts to support the
15 position that someone you know has presented a false,
16 fictitious or fraudulent claim to a department of the
17 United States?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Asking
19 for a legal conclusion.
20 THE WITNESS: Just anybody anywhere, no.
21 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Who told you that Brandon
22 McCarthy helped shop a Qui Tam against any of his
23 clients?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form .
25 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See

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1 Exhibit 1.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're going to plead
3 the Fifth Amendment with respect to who told you that
4 Brandon McCarthy allegedly was shopping Qui Tams against
5 some of his clients, correct?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. And so you're taking the Fifth Amendment with
8 respect to that issue?

9 A. Correct.
10 Q. You -- you got to make sure you say "I take the
11 Fifth Amendment?
12 A. I take the Fifth Amendment.
13 Q. Yeah. I'm sorry. I -- I -- it's my fault
14 because I didn't ask a proper question.
15 Who told you that Brandon McCarthy was
16 allegedly shopping a Qui Tam against any of his clients,
17 former clients, potential clients?

18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
19 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that?

20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sure. Who told you that
21 Brandon McCarthy was bringing a Qui Tam against any
22 clients, existing clients, former clients, or potential
23 clients or are you going to take the Fifth Amendment?
24 A. Yeah. I'm going to take the Fifth. See
25 Exhibit 1.

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1 Q. You're going to take the Fifth Amendment?
2 A. Please, yeah.
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) When you refer to the book
5 in the ~ext messages with Nathan Halsey, how were you
6 going to get the $2,000 · to pay for that book?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Asked
8 and answered.
9 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
10 Exhibit 1.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Who came up with the idea
12 to pay $2,000 strike that.
13 Who came up with the idea to offer Nathan
14 Halsey $2,000 for a book?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
17 Exhibit 1.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you come up with the
19 idea to pay or offer to pay Nathan Halsey $2,000 for a
20 copy of a book?
21 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
22 Q. Did Cameron Smith come up with the idea to pay
23 Nathan Halsey $2,000 for a copy of a book?
24 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
25 Q. Did Jim Rolfe come up with the idea to of fer

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1 Nathan Halsey -- have you offer Nathan Halsey $2,000 for
2 a copy of a book?
3 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
4 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Has Jim Rolfe ever been
6 your lawyer?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. When?
9 A. Jim Rolfe and Joe Kendall were my attorneys
10 when I was going through criminal matters.
11 Q. Okay. So --
12 A. So
13 MR. DAVID BELL: That's a public record.
14 He's not going to answer any other questions about
15 Mr. Rolfe or Judge Kendall.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
17 evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest that Brandon
18 Brandon McCarthy was going to get some sort of kickback
19 on a Qui Tam?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: No.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you ever get paid from
23 any source or anybody for your communications or
24 interactions with Nathan Halsey or Gus Kepler?
25 A. No.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL : Objection; form.
2 Objection; asked and answered. He answered no.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you -- have you been
4 paid as a consultant by anybody in the pharma -- strike
5 that.
6 Have you been paid as a consultant by
7 anybody in the health care space?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
9 THE WITNESS: No.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you been paid as a
11 consultant by any lawyers?
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
13 THE WITNESS: No.
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; asked and
15 answered.
16 MR. JAMES BELL: Sorry about these books.
17 Are you okay with space?
18 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Thanks.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) When•s the last time you
20 talked or interacted with Brandon McCarthy?
21 A. It's been a while. Gosh, maybe a couple of
22 years.
23 Q. And you testified earlier that you are not
24 aware of any cases or potential cases against Brandon
25 McCarthy, correct?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: Correct.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're not aware of any
4 investigation personally against Brandon McCarthy,
5 correct?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: Correct.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And you're not aware of
9 any proceedings, investigations, cases, or potential
10 cases whereby you have personal knowledge of or any
11 evidence you could provide to anybody against Brandon
12 McCarthy, correct?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 THE WITNESS: Correct.
15 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And so you would agree
16 with me since no cases, no investigations exist, that
17 and you're not aware of any proceedings, that Brandon
18 McCarthy hasn't attempted to intimidate you as a
19 witness. Do you agree?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: I don't know that no
22 investigations exist.
23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I understand you don't
24 know that any investigations exist.
25 My question

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1 MR. JAMES BELL: Objection; nonresponsive.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) My question to you is:
3 Since you don't know of any investigations or any
4 proceedings or potential proceedings whereby you would
5 be a witness, you don't have any direct evidence that
6 Brandon McCarthy is trying to intimidate you in any way
7 as a witness, correct?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Correct?
10 A. I've heard from numerous people.
11 Q. You don't have any direct evidence that Brandon
12 McCarthy is trying to intimidate you?
13 A. Directly no.
14 Q. Okay. So you don't have any direct evidence
15 that Brandon McCarthy is trying to intimidate you in any
16 way, correct?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. Do you have any direct evidence that Brandon
19 McCarthy has falsified any information?

20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: No .

22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
23 evidence that Brandon McCarthy has covered up or engaged
24 in any scheme, device, to defraud anybody or injure

25 anybody?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: No.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you aware -- strike
4 that.
5 Do you have any direct evidence, knowledge,
6 or facts to suggest that Brandon McCarthy has engaged in
7 false, fictitious, or fraudulent statements or
8 representations or made such?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS: No.
11 (Pause in proceedings)
12 MR. JAMES BELL: Let's take a quick break.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Yeah.
14 (Break taken)
15 (Matt Segedy not present after break)
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Sir, are you going to
17 refuse to answer the question about the identity of any
18 attorneys that you've met with in 2015 that can possibly
19 have knowledge about the questions I've been asking you?
20 A. I am, yes.
21 Q. Are you going to refuse to identify the name of
22 any attorneys in 2016 that possibly have any information
23 regarding the questions I've been asking you?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
25 THE WITNESS: Yes I am.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
2 answer the question about -- strike that.
3 Are you going to refuse to identify the
4 names of any attorneys that you've consulted with,
5 talked to, in 2017, regarding any of the questions I've
6 asked?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
10 answer the question of the dates of initial consultation
11 or meetings with any attorneys you met with in 2015, '16
12 or 2017, regarding the subject matter of any of the
13 questions I've been asking you about today?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form .
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
17 answer the question regarding the existence of any fee
18 agreements with any attorneys regarding the subject
19 matter that we've been talking about today in either
20 2015, 2016, or 2017?
21 A. What do you mean "fee agreements"?
22 Q. Do you have any fee agreements with any
23 attorneys?
24 A. No.

25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have a fee
2 agreement Mr. David Bell?
3 A. Well, I'm going to plead the Fifth. Exhibit 1.
4 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have a fee
5 agreement with David Bell? Are you taking the Fifth
6 Amendment?
7 A. I'm going to plead the Fifth Amendment.
8 Q. Who referred you to David Bell?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to let him
10 answer any questions about any lawyers.
11 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I'm going to plead the
12 Fifth. Exhibit 1.
13 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to plead the
14 Fifth Amendment with respect to the referral source was
15 to David Bell?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not going to answer
17 any questions about any lawyers --
18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am.
19 MR. DAVID BELL: -- he contacted or talked
20 to or referred him to me.
21 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
22 answer the question and/or take the Fifth Amendment
23 regarding any fees that have been charged by any
24 attorneys regarding any of the subject matter we've
25 discussed today in the years 2015, '16 and '17?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: Yes.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
4 answer the question regarding the terms of any fee
5 agreements with any lawyers regarding -- that -- that
6 you've talked to regarding the subject matter that we've
7 talked to -- talked to you about today?
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes. Correct, yes.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to refuse to
11 answer the question regarding the general purpose of any
12 work performed by any attorneys that relate to the
13 subject matter of your testimony today?
14 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 MR . DAVID BELL: I'm not going to allow him
17 to testify about any communication with any attorney.
18 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm not asking about the
19 communication. I'm asking about the identify of the
20 attorney. Are you going to refuse to allow him to
21 answer that question?
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Yes. Thank you.
23 MR. JAMES BELL: Are you also going to
24 refuse to allow your client to answer when the date of
25 any initial consult or meeting was with any attorney?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Yes. And that's also
2 based upon his Fifth Amendment rights that he's
3 asserting today.
4 MR. JAMES BELL: Well, I just
5 MR. DAVID BELL: And actually his First
6 Amendment rights that he should be asserting today.
7 MR. JAMES BELL: Well, I need to -- I
8 Just based on the case law, I need to -- to make sure I
9 get a direct answer.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you -- are you going
11 to refuse to answer the date of any initial
12 consultations' or meetings with any attorneys, whether
13 they acted as your attorney or you talked with them
14 outside the scope of an attorney/client relationship?
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
17 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And you're going to refuse
18 to identify the name of any attorneys that you've had a
19 relationship with, whether attorney/client or otherwise,
20 based on your Fifth Amendment privilege?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Are you going to take the Fifth Amendment with
23 respect to your relationship with Cameron Smith?
24 A. Yes.
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you going to take the
2 Fifth Amendment -- strike that.
3 Are you taking the Fifth Amendment with
4 respect to your relationship with Jim Rolfe?
5 A. Yes.
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form again.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How much have you paid
8 David Bell or are you taking the Fifth Amendment?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not going to testify
10 about his relationship with his attorney.
11 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to testify
12 about any attorneys. I'm going to plead the Fifth. See
13 Exhibit 1.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And you're pleading the
15 Fifth as to who your referral source was as to getting
16 to David Bell?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: He's not going to testify
18 about that any conversations with -- or communications
19 with any attorney. Objection; form.
20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. I'm -- I'm not
21 asking -- was -- did a nonattorney refer you to David
22 Bell?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form .
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So you're going to

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1 refuse to answer the question about who -- which
2 attorney was the referral source to David Bell or are
3 you taking the Fifth Amendment?
4 A. I am, yes.
5 Q. You're taking
6 A. I' rn I'm pleading the Fifth Amendment. See
7 Exhibit 1.
8 Q. On the September 8th meeting that you had --
9 strike that.
10 On the -- do you remember on your
11 August 13, 2015, meeting pitching Brandon McCarthy to
12 use your Prisoner Entry Program that you had started?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Is that possible?
15 A. It's possible.
16 Q. And did you -- do you remember talking about
17 Forest Park and Dr. Rimlawi at that first meeting on
18 August 2013, 2015?
19 A. At K&L Gates?
20 Q. Yes, sir.
21 A. I don't recall it, but I'm not saying it's not
22 possible.
23 Q. Sure. Is it -- is it possible that you spent
24 time talking about your Prisoner Entry Program at K&L
25 Gates at your first meeting with Brandon McCarthy? Yes

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1 or no?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Is it -- it's also possible that you spent time
4 talking about Forest Park Medical Center with Brandon
5 McCarthy at your first meeting at K&L Gates, correct?
6 A. Is the question is it possible?
7 Q. Yes.
8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And it's possible that you
11 also spoke about Dr. Rimlawi with Brandon McCarthy at
12 the first meeting at K&L Gates on or about August 13,
13 2015, correct?
14 A. It's possible. I don't recall.
15 Q. It's also possible that you talked about --
16 MR. JAMES BELL: I can move this over. I'm
17 sorry.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) It's also possible that
19 you spoke to Brandon McCarthy about a man -- a gentleman
20 by the name of Joe Garza? Do you recall that on that
21 August 2013, 2015, meeting?
22 A. It's possible.
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) When you went to that
25 September 13th meeting, did you understand how Qui Tams

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1 worked, or no?
2 A. No. August.
3 Q. I'm sorry. When you showed up to the August
4 13, 2015, meeting did you understand how Qui Tams
5 worked?
6 A. No. That's why we went there, to primarily see
7 if we could gain Brandon's knowledge.
8 Q. On how -- on how a Qui Tam works?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. You didn't have any information on any
11 compounding pharmacies, doctors, hospitals, correct, at
12 that August meeting?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. You had some information regarding stock
15 schemes and possibly Dr. Rimlawi, correct, at that first
16 meeting?
17 A. Possibly.
18 Q. At that first meeting?
19 A. Possibly, yes.
20 Q. You would agree with me that nothing
21 substantive was discussed at that first meeting with
22 Brandon McCarthy in August of 2015, correct?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: Nothing substantive, but
25 speaking on Rimlawi, now that I recollect, it -- it

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1 strikes me as Brandon also thought he was a crook. I
2 mean that all our -- talking about him. Because I did
3 too and he -- he pretty much thought the same. But
4 there was no specifics talked about as far as what
5 exactly he's done or anything.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So you-all -- you
7 recall you remember talking about Dr. Rimlawi --
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. -- at that first meeting?
10 A. I -- I don't know when it actually was, but I
11 know I've talked to Brandon about Rimlawi.
12 Q. And it probably would have been at the first
13 meeting?
14 A. I guess, you know, I
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't guess, please.
16 THE WITNESS: Okay. Possibly.
17 Q ., (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And then you would
18 agree with me that nothing substantive was discussed
19 about any pharmacy, hospital, or doctor that you're
20 aware of at that first meeting, correct?
21 A. Correct.
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 THE WITNESS: Correct.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you remember the name
25 of -- strike that.

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1 Do you know whether or not Gus gave Brandon
2 the name of -- the proper name of any compounding
3 pharmacies or was he just listing them off? Do you
4 remember?
5 A. I don't recall.
6 Q. So you don't recall which pharmacies Gus talked
7 to Brandon about, correct?
8 A. Correct.

9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS: Correct.
11 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) And whatever pharmacies
12 were mentioned, you don't remember any criminal conduct
13 or willful conduct that was discussed at that meeting,
14 because you said nothing substantive was discussed,
15 correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And Brandon McCarthy told you he needed to run
18 a conflict checks, correct?
19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Before he could proceed, correct?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. Because that was the standard procedure and he
23 wanted to make sure that -- this is his third day at a
24 big tall building law firm -- that he doesn't get in any
25 trouble, right?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: Absolutely.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) That was the impression
4 that you got?
5 A. Absolutely.
6 Q. Did Brandon at that first meeting appear to be
7 careful and cautious about what clients or Qui Tams he
8 could or couldn't take and -- and the conflict
9 procedures? Did he seem to be aware of those and
10 cognizant and
11 A. Yes.
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form, please.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Go ahead. What's the
14 answer?
15 A. Well, he -- he was -- he -- we just discussed
16 the basics of how a Qui Tam worked. It wasn't -- there
17 was no specifics. It was -- you know, and then he said
18 he had to, you know, see if there's any conflicts.
19 There wasn't any intimate details about any case or
20 person or anything like that.
21 Q. So no intimate details were talked to about any
22 case or person, correct, at the first meeting?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. There was -- it was just basically an overview
25 of how Qui Tam's work, correct?

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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And the names -- there were some names that
3 were given to Brandon McCarthy, correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. You don't remember the name of those pharmacies
6 because they were all --
7 A. There's so many of them and it was names and
8 companies and no, I don't -- I don't recall, you know,
9 all the names and companies that were talked about.
10 Q. And Brandon McCarthy told you and Gus that he
11 needed to run a conflict checks, correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And before he could even take a look at it or
14 talk about any of these pharmacies because they could
15 potentially be clients of K&L Gates, correct?
16 A. Correct. He made no comments whatsoever
17 regarding any person or any company while we were there.
18 Q. Okay. So Brandon seemed completely
19 professional in his dealings with you and Gus, correct?
20 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
21 THE WITNESS: Correct. Correct.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You've been around enough
23 attorneys to know whether or not a lawyer is
24 professional or not, right?
25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. And Brandon seemed and -- seemed prepared and
2 professional in terms of abiding by, based on your
3 observations, abiding by his legal duties and ethical
4 obligations to clients, and former clients, and/or
5 existing clients of K&L Gates, correct?
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 THE WITNESS: Correct. There was no --
8 like I said, there was he didn't make any substantive
9 comments. He listened to us. And then at the end he
10 said, well, you know, before I can advise you or do
11 anything, I have to do a conflict check. And so yes,
12 correct.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. So Brandon told you
14 before he could do anything or advise, he had to run a
15 conflicts check, correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And that seemed like the right thing to do,
18 correct?
19 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form .
20 THE WITNESS: Based on my, you know,
21 limited knowledge of law, yes.
22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And based on Brandon's
23 professionalism that's why you continued to stay in
24 contact with him? It's one of the reasons why, correct?
25 A. Correct.

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1 Q. That he seemed to maintain confidentiality and
2 he didn't seem like a shady lawyer to you, correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. He seemed like he was honest, ethical in his
5 dealings with the two of you, at least in your limited
6 interaction with him, correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. He didn't give you or Gus any legal advice,
9 correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Brandon just in that first meeting, just
12 listened to the two of you, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. And as you sit here right now, there's nothing
15 you can say that Brandon did wrong in that first meeting
16 with you in August of 2015, correct?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objectioni form.
18 THE WITNESS: Correct. Correct.
19 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} And in terms of the second
20 meeting that happened, I believe at the hotel, there's
21 nothing Brandon said that was inappropriate or wrong or
22 unethical in your opinion, correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. The book that you reference in your text
25 message with Nathan Halsey where you offer to pay him

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1 $2,000, does that refer to a copy of a PowerPoint
2 presentation?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 THE WITNESS: On advice of my counsel, I
5 plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Have you seen a PowerPoint
7 presentation related to any alleged health care schemes?

8 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; asked and
9 answered. Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS : Plead the Fifth. See Exhibit
11 1.

12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you remember a name
13 called Trilogy coming up in the fall of 2015?
14 A. I mean I've heard the name.

15 Q. Do you know anything about the pharmacy called
16 Trilogy?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you have any evidence that Brandon McCarthy
19 brought or attempted to bring a Qui Tam lawsuit against
20 a company called ProGen?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
22 THE WITNESS: No.

23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any evidence
24 that Brandon put his personal well-being above any of
25 his clients, former clients, or alleged clients?

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
2 THE WITNESS: No.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any evidence
4 that Brandon McCarthy has tried to drum up any federal
5 criminal conviction in to any of his former clients,
6 clients or existing clients?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Or prospective clients.
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS: No.
11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
12 evidence, knowledge, or facts to suggest that Brandon
13 McCarthy helped published slanderous news articles
14 against clients, former clients, existing clients or
15 other folks?
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
17 THE WITNESS: No.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
19 evidence that Brandon McCarthy's ever exploited a
20 client -- a confidential relationship with any of his
21 clients, former clients, or existing clients?
22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 THE WITNESS: No.
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. When you get to a
25 stopping point.

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1 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay. Give me five
2 minutes. Is that all right?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Yeah . I was just going
4 to --
5 MR. JAMES BELL: If you want to bring pizza
6 in here --
7 MR. DAVID BELL: No, just
8 (Pause in proceedings)
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) At -- based on your
10 previous testimony that Brandon McCarthy didn't say
11 much, he didn't at the first meeting Brandon McCarthy
12 didn't tell you that he wanted to be in charge of
13 bringing a Qui Tam against anybody at that point in
14 time, correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. It was more at the first meeting it was more
17 Brandon McCarthy trying to give you information about
18 what a Qui Tam was and the law behind a Qui Tam,
19 correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Just a basic overview what a Qui Tam was?
22 A. We were just there I mean I like Brandon.
23 I mean I would consider him my friend so I just said --
24 I told Gus, I said, let's go there and he can explain
25 it. I don't know what it is and it's very confusing to

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1 me. So I said he can explain it to us. And, you know,
2 we can see if there's a possibility or not on whatever,
3 you know, everybody was thinking about trying to make
4 some money off a Qui Tam case. Because I was too. We
5 were all, you know, trying to figure out how we can make
6 some money off of this deal. So we just went there
7 and -- and Brandon just kind of outlined the basics of
8 how they worked. But not as far as any particular
9 person or company or anything like that.
10 Q. Did you bring the concept of the Qui Tam
11 against ProGen and its principals to Brandon McCarthy?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Was there ever a plan for you to be a plaintiff
14 in a Qui Tam lawsuit against ProGen that you're aware
15 of?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did you discuss the name ProGen in the
18 August 2015 meeting?
19 A. Not that I recall. I don't -- I mean they were
20 rattling ...
21 Q. As you sit here right now, can you remember the
22 name
23 A. No, I cannot.
24 Q. As you -- I just got to get a clean record.

25 A. Okay.

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1 Q. As you sit here right now, do you remember the
2 name ProGen even coming up in your August 2015 meeting
3 with Brandon McCarthy?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Was -- strike that.
6 Brandon McCarthy never solicited you to be
7 a plaintiff in the Qui Tam action, correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 (Pause in proceedings)
10 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Since you didn't know the
11 name ProGen, would you agree with me that you were never
12 adverse to ProGen?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form .
14 THE WITNESS: I would agree with that.
15 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Brandon McCarthy
16 conspire with you to move forward with a Qui Tam?
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
18 THE WITNESS: No.
19 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Brandon McCarthy
20 strategize and/or conspire with you to move forward
21 regarding a Qui Tam?
22 A. No.
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Brandon McCarthy make

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1 a deal with you regarding any Qui Tam?
2 A. No.

3 Q. Did Brandon McCarthy ever make any illegal
4 deals with you?
5 A. No.

6 Q. Did Brandon McCarthy ever say that he would
7 personally receive a portion of any recovery of a Qui
8 Tam to you?
9 A. No.

10 Q. Did McCarthy say that he would take on a -- a
11 Qui Tam without supporting evidence?
12 A. No.

13 Q. Did Brandon McCarthy ever talk to you about any
14 referral fee or fee for him?
15 A. No.

16 Q. Did you see a PowerPoint presentation by
17 Brandon McCarthy in or around Brandon McCarthy or that
18 Brandon McCarthy had anything to do with?
19 A. No.

20 Q. Do you have any evidence, facts, or knowledge
21 that Brandon McCarthy was looking in to ProGen to sue
22 them?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct

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1 evidence, knowledge, or facts that McCarthy was looking
2 in to Schuster, Rall or any of those folks to sue them
3 or harm them?
4 A. No.

5 Q. Do you have any evidence, facts, or knowledge
6 to suggest that Brandon McCarthy tried to get any former
7 clients, existing clients, or prospective clients
8 criminally prosecuted?
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS: No.

11 (Pause in proceedings)
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did you ever hear Brandon
13 McCarthy bring up the name ProGen to the best of your
14 recollection?
15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you remember Brandon McCarthy in any -- you
17 don't remember Brandon McCarthy bringing up the name
18 Schuster, Rall or Xpress Pharmacy in your meetings,
19 correct?
20 A. Correct. He didn't comment on anything. He
21 just listened and then told us that he had to do a
22 check. That's it.
23 Q. Do you have any direct evidence, knowledge, or
24 facts that Brandon McCarthy -- that Brandon McCarthy
25 helped Nathan Halsey obtain information or records about

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1 ProGen and/or RXpress?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
3 THE WITNESS: No.
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Or any of its principals?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Do you have any direct evidence, knowledge, or
7 facts that suggest that Brandon McCarthy attempted to
8 persuade the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to
9 investigate ProGen or RXpress Rolfe or Schuster, any of
10 those folks?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
12 THE WITNESS: No.
13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
14 evidence, knowledge, or facts that -- that Brandon
15 McCarthy had something to do with presenting allegations
16 regarding ProGen or any of the companies I 1 ve mentioned
17 to the U.S. attorney's office?
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form .
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
21 evidence, knowledge, or facts that Brandon McCarthy
22 worked with Halsey, Kepler, or you to publish defamatory
23 news articles and television segments?
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
25 THE WITNESS: No.

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1 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
2 evidence that Brandon McCarthy had anything to do with a
3 CBS news article?
4 A. No.

5 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
6 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Do you have any direct
7 evidence that Brandon McCarthy spurred the issuance of
8 the warrant on Halsey's phone?
9 A. No.

10 Q. Based solely on your dealings with Brandon
11 McCarthy, you would agree with me, he was honest in his
12 dealings with you, true?

13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Based on your dealings with Brandon McCarthy,
15 you would agree with me that he seemed ethical in his
16 dealings with you, true?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. You would agree with me that Brandon McCarthy
19 in his dealings with you was upfront, honest, had
20 integrity, correct?
21 A. I would.
22 Q. You'd say that Brandon McCarthy, in his
23 dealings with you, presented himself as a loyal -- an
24 attorney that acted with loyalty and integrity of the
25 strictest kind? Would you agree with that?

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1 A. Yes. I mean, like I said, we were friends. I
2 was helping him with the Keep My ID thing. So I
3 would -- yeah. The answer is yes. I mean ...
4 Q. You're not aware of any false or inaccurate
5 statements that Brandon McCarthy made, correct?
6 A. No.
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I asked a double negative.
10 I'm sorry.
11 A. Oh, okay.
12 Q. Would you agree with me that you're not aware
13 of false or inaccurate statements that Brandon McCarthy
14 has made about any clients, former clients, existing
15 clients, future clients, or anybody to your knowledge?
16 Do you --
17 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) -- agree with that
19 statement?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Do you have the direct evidence, knowledge, or
22 facts to suggest that Brandon McCarthy urged CBS to run
23 any kind of story regarding any of his clients, former
24 clients, or existing clients?
25 A. No.

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: This is yours.
2 MR. JAMES BELL: Thank you.
3 (Pause in proceedings)
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) When you told Brandon
5 McCarthy that you've got a huge case out of Fort Worth
6 in the hundreds of millions, health care, you didn't
7 have any facts or evidence at that time, you just
8 possible -- you were just searching for a potential Qui
9 Tam case, correct?
10 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
11 THE WITNESS: Correct.
12 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) How is your daughter, by

13 the way?
14 A. Fine. Thank you.
15 Q. Good.
16 A. Fourteen. She's still sweet. Hopefully she
17 stays that way.
18 MR. JAMES BELL: The name of the gal at the
19 second meeting was Brooke Chavez Taylor.

20 THE WITNESS: Taylor. Brooke Taylor.
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Hey, can I have that?
22 MR. JAMES BELL: No.
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Let me see her again.
24 Cute.

25 THE WITNESS: Yes, she's cute. What do you

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1 think, Brandon?
2 MR. McCARTHY: She went to Harvard.
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Do what?
4 MR. McCARTHY: Harvard. Smart girl.
5 Harvard. Harvard.
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Harvard, Massachusetts?
7 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
8 MR. JAMES BELL: Yes.
9 MR. DAVID BELL: Sure it wasn't Howard?
10 MR. JAMES BELL: Yeah. Positive.
11 (Pause in proceedings)
12 THE WITNESS: She's in law school, I think.
13 I heard she maybe went to law school.
14 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Where are you currently
15 living in case I have to subpoena you at another point
16 in time?
17 A. 5608 Matalee, but I don't know how long. I'll
18 update you if I change my address.
19 MR. JAMES BELL: Well, you've got to go
20 through your attorney.
21 THE WITNESS: Or I'll update him to let you
22 know.
23 That's another coincidence that came up, I
24 guess, I can't -- I'm not allowed to live there because
25 of my --

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1 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't go into any of that
2 stuff, please.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay. So ...
4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} You would agree in your
5 dealings with Brandon McCarthy it appeared that he
6 adhered to his ethical legal duties, correct?
7 MR. DAVID BELL: Form; asked and answered.
8 THE WITNESS: Correct.
9 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} McCarthy seemed -- strike
10 that.
11 Based on your observations, McCarthy seemed
12 faithful to his clients, correct?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Form; asked and answered.
14 MR. JAMES BELL: I didn't ask that before,
15 by the way. I haven't asked any of these.
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Asked and answered.
17 THE WITNESS: I mean, yeah, correct.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} McCarthy appeared --
19 strike that.
20 McCarthy was forthright, correct?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. McCarthy was frank with you guys?
23 A. Correct.
24 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL} McCarthy seemed like he

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1 had a conscience, correct?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

3 THE WITNESS: Correct.

4 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Honorable?

5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Just?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Moral?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. Principled?

11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Conscientious?

13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Fair?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Equitable?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Upright?
19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Honorable?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. Trustworthy?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Impartial?

25 A. Correct.

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1 Q. Unbiased?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Unprejudiced?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Neutral?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. Lawful?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. Legal?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Legitimate?
12 A. Correct.
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. I don't
14 know what that means.
15 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did McCarthy reveal,
16 disclose, or divulge any information about any of his
17 clients to you?
18 A. No.

19 Q. Did McCarthy leak, unmask, expose any
20 information about any of his clients, prospective
21 clients to you?
22 A. No.

23 MR. JAMES BELL: Let's take a quick pizza
24 break and maybe I can shore this up.
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Yeah.

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1 MR. JAMES BELL: Is that cool?
2 MR. DAVID BELL: Sure.
3 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay.
4 (Break taken)
5 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) All right. Just -- is
6 there anything I can say or do to change your mind about
7 the questions I've asked regarding the Fifth Amendment?
8 Change -- are you going to continue to maintain the
9 Fifth Amendment with respect to the questions I asked
10 you?
11 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm better suited to
12 answer that question than he is. So we've talked about
13 meeting. Let's meet and then we'll revisit all that.
14 MR. JAMES BELL: I know. I just need to
15 get it on the record.
16 MR. DAVID BELL: Okay. That's fine.
17 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay.
18 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I would like to stick
19 with my answers.
20 MR. JAMES BELL: I just - - let me ask it
21 again, just so I have a clean record.
22 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Is there anything I can
23 say or do to change your mind with regard to withdrawing
24 your assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege
25 regarding any of the questions I've asked you thus far?

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1 A. No.
2 MR. JAMES BELL: Okay. Now, just -- I
3 think it will take ten minutes in terms of a timeline.
4 Well
5 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to assert the
6 Fifth Amendment privilege with respect to any dealings
7 with Cameron Smith, correct?

8 A. Well, any attorneys is what I'm going to assert
9 the Fifth Amendment with.
10 Q. Okay.
11 MR. DAVID BELL: Any and all.

12 THE WITNESS: Yeah.

13 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) You're going to assert the
14 Fifth Amendment privilege with respect to Cameron Smith,

15 correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Jim Rolfe, correct?

18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Joe Kendall, correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Okay. Now, you're aware of circumstances
22 whereby folks were -- or have tried to implicate -- or
23 her of implicating Brandon -- Brandon McCarthy in some
24 kind of nefarious or wrongful conduct, correct?

25 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.

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1 THE WITNESS: Well, I mean hearsay.
2 I've heard at lot of stuff, you know.
3 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Secondhand?
4 A. Yeah. About everybody and everything. I mean
5 as far as this case is kind -- or this deal, whatever
6 you want to call it, has kind of taken on a life of its
7 own. So I've heard all kinds of stuff about all
8 different people.
9 Q. So what have you heard about any alleged
10 wrongdoing by Brandon McCarthy, even though it's
11 secondhand? Now I'm asking for indirect knowledge or
12 indirect facts.
13 A. I mean the thing -- I guess, you know, the
14 whole thing with -- with Nathan and getting wired up by
15 the FBI. That -- I -- I really get confused as far as
16 the companies or whatever that maybe -- that as far as
17 Kevin Krause is concerned that that for -- that Kevin
18 Krause would not run Nathan's SEC complaint in the
19 newspaper if if he was given the information on
20 whomever, Scoot Schuster, Dustin, et cetera. But I
21 don't -- I don't know who that deal was made with, if
22 there ever was a deal. I just had heard that from
23 Nathan.
24 Because Nathan had told me that if that
25 article runs in Dallas -- all his investors are in

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1 Dallas -- and he's basically screwed.
2 Q. My question is: What have you heard that
3 Brandon McCarthy has done wrong? Or has everything you
4 learned about Brandon McCarthy come from attorneys?
5 A. No, I mean a lot of it came from Halsey. But I
6 don't -- you know, I mean I guess the that I heard
7 that he sent Nathan to the FBI off ice to get wired up to
8 go get information against whomever. I don't know
9 exactly who they were, but ...
10 That.
11 You know and, like I said, about me, I've
12 heard, you know, numerous times that he had somebody at
13 the IRS and that he was going to put on me.
14 Q. Who did you hear that from again?

15 A. Well, I heard it from the guy that Carl, who
16 was a client of what's his name that I mentioned
17 earlier. I don't know. It's some some attorney.
18 Carl Fleming is his name. The guy at Hillstone. I know
19 that there's a guy whose name is Hoi that has, you know,
20 been calling people. And I had a girl -- an
21 ex-girlfriend that said he called her and was asking
22 about my investments and did I beat her up. And then
23 she said eight months later he called and said, well,
24 does Ryan sell drugs? And I'm going, what's going on
25 here?

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1 I've heard -- well, you're talking about
2 Brandon. I'm trying to think. I mean, that -- that he
3 was representing somebody and getting evidence against
4 them when they were his client -- when they were his
5 firm's client.
6 Q. Who did you hear that from, that allegation?

7 A. I don't know. It's like all so convoluted. I
8 don't really remember. I'm just telling you things I
9 remember that I've heard. You know ...
10 Q. Did you hear that allegation from any

11 attorneys?

12 A. I don't recall. But I mean I guess the main
13 thing is the FBI thing . Because -- that -- that's --
14 you know, when Nathan told me that was -- that he was
15 doing that, that -- that scared me. And I don't know
16 who, what or -- had anything to do with that. But I
17 didn't -- that's when I was -- that made me nervous.
18 You know, especially in my situation. I just felt that
19 was careless of him to be doing. But I know he wanted
20 to get off that case, that SEC case.
21 I heard that -- that Brandon called the SEC
22 attorney that was handling Nathan's case and maybe tried
23 to trade you know, try to get Nathan -- help Nathan
24 out. And I don't know if that's improper or not. I
25 mean but I heard that. And that the SEC attorney told

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1 Nathan that if Barack Obama calls me, I wouldn't drop
2 this case. I'm not -- I'm not I don't know if that's
3 wrong or not. I don't know if Brandon had anything to
4 do with it. I'm just telling you things I've heard.
5 I'm -- I'm not saying they're right, wrong, or
6 indifferent. I don't know.
7 But mainly the FBI thing and, you know,
8 from Nathan what said I -- I didn't -- you know, that he
9 went to Krause. I don't know who all met with Kevin
10 Krause. But, you know, it was told to me that there
11 it was a trade where they would get Kevin the
12 information on Schuster, Rall, et cetera, and all the
13 companies if he wouldn't run that story.
14 Basically that's, you know, what I can
15 remember.
16 Q. With regard to your assertion of the Fifth

17 Amendment regarding the book that we were talking about

18 earlier. Do you remember that?

19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. When did you first hear of a book or a

21 PowerPoint? Are you going to take the Fifth Amendment?

22 A. Well, I've never heard of a PowerPoint.
23 Q. Okay. You've heard of a book?

24 A. I've heard of a book, but I don't -- I've never
25 seen a book. I don't -- it's my -- it's my belief that

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1 the book -- that the way that it was described by Gus
2 and Nathan -- had nothing do to with Brandon.
3 Q. Your under --
4 A. I --

5 Q. Your understanding is the book had nothing to
6 do with Brandon?
7 A. No. It wasn't -- it wasn't a
8 Q. Well, I just -- I asked you a double negative.
9 It was your understanding -- would it be a
10 fair statement to say that your understanding was the
11 book that you were talking about earlier with Gus and
12 Nathan had nothing to do with Brandon. That would be a
13 true statement, correct?
14 A. Abso-- yes.
15 Q. Okay. Now, tell me what else do you --
16 A. Well, the -- the from my understanding was
17 it was about Schuster and Rall. I don't even -- it was
18 never -- I never have heard -- that's what struck me as
19 funny when you said was there a book that was trying
20 to -- that people were trying to get to hurt him. It
21 was -- it had nothing to do with him. I think you're
22 you're there's something that you're missing as far
23 as that's concerned.
24 I think that whatever this book was had to
25 do with the evidence that Nathan obtained on whoever he

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1 was recording and text messaging and things of that
2 nature.
3 Q. That's your guess?
4 A. That's what I was told.
5 Q. Who were you told that by?
6 A. Nathan and Gus.
7 Q. Okay. But as far as you know, you don't -- you
8 don't think Brandon had anything to do with this book,
9 correct?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Okay. So yeah, I asked you a double negative.
14 Just to be clear.
15 As far as you knew Brandon McCarthy had
16 nothing to do with this book that Nathan and/or Gus --
17 Nathan Halsey, Gus Kepler had made, correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Now, at some point you were trying to obtain
20 this book from either Gus or Nathan, right?
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
22 THE WITNESS: That, I'm going to plead the
23 Fifth on -- on anything that has to do with me trying to
24 obtain this book. I'm just telling you
25 MR. DAVID BELL: Just let let him --

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1 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) What is the reasoning
3 behind -- how would talking about the book incriminate
4 you?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: You don't need to answer
6 that. You're asking him for a legal conclusion.
7 Just --
8 THE WITNESS: I'm just going to plead the
9 Fifth.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. When -- well, why
11 did you want to obtain a copy of the book?
12 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
13 THE WITNESS: I'm going to plead the Fifth
14 on that.
15 MR. DAVID BELL: Tell him go back to
16 Exhibit --
17 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
18 (Pause in proceeding)
19 THE WITNESS: I mean what I'm telling you
20 is
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Just leave it.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) If you were me sitting
24 here right now, what question should I ask you that
25 wouldn't call for your invocation of the Fifth Amendment

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1 privilege?

2 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
3 Why don't you and I talk, like we

4 discussed earlier.

5 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm happy to talk to you

6 afterwards. I'm -- I'm just -- I want

7 MR. DAVID BELL: I'm not going to let him

8 answer those questions. I'm not going to let him waive,

9 knowingly or inadvertently, his First or Fifth Amendment

10 or any other right he has.

11 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So are you pleading the

12 Fifth Amendment with respect to why you wanted to obtain

13 a copy of the, quote, unquote, book?

14 MR. DAVID BELL: He's doing what he's

15 testified on the record.

16 MR. JAMES BELL: I know. I just got to get

17 a record.

18 MR. DAVID BELL: That's all that he's --

19 just -- just

20 THE WITNESS: I'm pleading the Fifth. See

21 Exhibit 1.

22 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Okay. And was it your

23 intent to purchase the book and then sell the book?

24 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

25 Q. Who all was involved in -- strike that.

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1 Was it more than you involved in attempting

2 to purchase the book?

3 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

4 Q. Did you try and get the book from Gus Kepler?

5 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

6 Q. Did you try and get the book from Nathan

7 Halsey?

8 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

9 Q. Why were you train -- trying to obtain a book

10 that you had never seen?

11 A. I have to plead the Fifth again. See Exhibit

12 1.

13 Q. Did somebody instruct you to obtain the book?

14 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

15 Q. Why did anybody else want to have a copy of the

16 book?

17 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

18 Q. How was the book going to help you?

19 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

20 Q. Were you going to benefit -- benefit by

21 obtaining the book?

22 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

23 Q. Were you ever given the book?

24 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.

25 Q. Did you have a copy of the book and just not

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1 look at it?
2 A. I plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
3 Q. Have you ever held any type -- have you ever
4 held this book in your hand?
5 A. Plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
6 Q. And when I say "the book," this is the book
7 that was allegedly created by Halsey and and Gus,
8 correct?
9 A. I mean I don't know.
10 Q. Is that your understanding of the book that
11 we're talking about?
12 A. No.

13 Q. What is your understanding of the book?
14 A. Because you're telling me there was a book that
15 had something to do with McCarthy.
16 Q. I'm talking about the book regarding Halsey and
17 and -- and -- and Kepler. That's the only book
18 that's out there.
19 A. That I'm aware of.
20 Q. I'm talking about the -- the book
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Excuse me. Objection;
22 form.
23 MR. JAMES BELL: Sure.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I'm talking about the book
25 that you're referring to in the text messages between

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1 you and Kepler and you and Halsey. Do you understand
2 that?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
4 THE WITNESS: I'm going to plead the Fifth.
5 And see Exhibit 1 on that.
6 But you inferred earlier that it was some
7 kind of book to use against McCarthy (indicating).
8 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) The implication is if
9 Brandon McCarthy had something to do with creating that
10 book, he would have been creating it against some of his
11 own clients. And that would be wrongful. Don't you
12 agree?
13 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. Asked
14 for a legal -- asks -- asks for a legal conclusion.
15 THE WITNESS: I've -- I've never heard
16 that. That that Brandon had anything do with that
17 book, if we're talking about the same book.
18 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) I'm talking about the book
19 that you're talking about in your text messages to
20 Halsey and Gus.
21 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
22 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth. See
23 Exhibit 1.
24 I just didn't know -- you inferred earlier
25 that there was some book out there that was trying to do

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1 harm to McCarthy.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) It's the same book I'm
3 talking about.
4 A. Okay. I've never thought that Brandon had
5 anything to do with that book or produced it or went
6 out -- from from my understanding that was Nathan. I
7 don't I never so when you say that it's supposedly
8 going to be used against him, I don't -- I have no
9 knowledge of that.
10 Q. Well, do you understand the allegation against
11 Brandon?
12 A. No, apparently not.
13 Q. The -- the allegation is that he somehow has
14 had seen the book or produced the book, created the
15 book, helped author the book with Nathan Halsey and
16 and Gus to turn against former clients. Do you
17 understand that that's one -- one of the allegations
18 A. No.
19 Q. -- his firm is making against -- no?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Okay. Do you understand why I -- now I'm
22 trying to ask about the -- the same book? Why -- why
23 we're talking about the same book? Do you understand
24 now? Does that give you a better kind of --
25 A. Yeah, I -- see, I didn't -- I didn't realize

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1 all that.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. This is -- if -- if -- if this is the book
4 that's out there that has information on whomever, the
5 common knowledge out on the street is is that Nathan
6 Halsey created this book. And so when you were saying
7 that about using it against Brandon or something, I I

8 thought you were talking about something different.
9 Because I -- that doesn't make any sense to me.
10 Q. Well, it makes sense to you now, right?
11 A. I --

12 Q. If Nathan Halsey created a book against clients
13 of Brandon McCarthy's and Brandon McCarthy knew about it
14 to -- and -- and handed it over to pursue a Qui Tam
15 lawsuit against his own clients, you could understand
16 that -- if that allegation was made, you can understand
17 why Brian -- why Brandon McCarthy wants to know who,
18 what, when, where, how about this alleged book because
19 he had nothing to do with it. You can understand that,
20 right?
21 A. Yeah. I never -- that didn't even cross my
22 mind that he would have. I'm telling you Nathan -- that
23 Halsey -- if this is the so-called book, Halsey created
24 this book, went out and got the information and it
25 was -- and from my understanding, this book was created

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1 because Halsey was trying to obtain evidence to get
2 himself -- see, the Qui Tam was second nature. That
3 that was down the line. I mean there's other
4 there's -- Halsey thought he was in a pickle. I mean,
5 Halsey's been through this before, you know. Reed
6 Prospere got him off a prior -- he almost got indicted
7 and Reed got him off a prior deal he was involved in.
8 So Halsey was worried that this SEC case could be
9 referred to the DOJ. And that -- if we're talking about
10 this book, that's what I understood the book to be.
11 I didn't even -- never related McCarthy to
12 this book whatsoever. It was for Halsey to get out of
13 whatever deal he was in.
14 Q. Did Halsey ever say to you that Brandon

15 McCarthy had anything to do with this book?

16 A. No.
17 Q. Did Gus Kepler ever tell you that Brandon

18 McCarthy anything to do with this book?

19 A. No.
20 Q. Then why were you trying to obtain a copy of

21 the book from Nathan Halsey?

22 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
23 THE WITNESS: I'm going to plead the Fifth.
24 Exhibit 1.
25 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) If it has nothing to do

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1 with Brandon McCarthy, why are you pleading the Fifth
2 Amendment as it relates to this book?
3 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form. I think
4 the law is clear. He doesn't have to explain that to
5 you, Counsel.
6 Q. {BY MR. JAMES BELL) Are you taking the Fifth
7 Amendment?
8 A. Yeah. I'm pleading the Fifth. Exhibit 1.
9 Q. Did Nathan Halsey ever give you a copy of the
10 book?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Are you aware of any copies that exist out
13 there of the book?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Did Gus Kepler have a copy of the book?
16 A. Not that I'm aware of.
17 Q. Were you trying to get the book to pursue a Qui
18 Tam?
19 A. Plead the Fifth. See Exhibit 1.
20 Q. When you were offering $2,000 to Nathan Halsey
21 to get a copy of this book, is it because you wanted to
22 pursue a Qui Tam case?
23 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection -- objection;
24 form.
25 THE WITNESS: I plead the Fifth . Exhibit

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1 1.
2 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Jim Rolfe or Cameron
3 Smith instruct you to offer $2,000 for the book so that
4 they could surreptitiously help you prosecute a Qui Tam?
5 A. I plead the Fifth. Exhibit 1.
6 MR. DAVID BELL: Objection; form.
7 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) So you're pleading the
8 Fifth Amendment with respect to a book you've never
9 seen, right?
10 A. Yes. Correct.
11 Q. You're pleading the Fifth Amendment with
12 respect to a book you tried to obtain a copy -- how did
13 you -- strike that.
14 How did you know that a book even existed?
15 A. I think Halsey kind of prided himself on making
16 these presentations and, you know, I'm -- I'm friends
17 with Reed Prospere and he, at one point, told me that
18 MR. DAVID BELL: Don't tell him any
19 conversations with any lawyer that's ever represented
20 you.
21 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
22 Supposedly, Halsey was -- was good at
23 presentations and he made this to help himself.
24 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) Did Reed Prospere ever
25 represent you?

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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And are you aware of any other presentations,
3 other than the book that we're talking about, that
4 Halsey made?
5 A. Not in relation to this case.
6 Q. Are are you aware of any other Qui Tam --
7 alleged Qui Tam presentations made by Halsey?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Are you aware of any other books or
10 presentations made by Halsey?
11 A. No. Halsey told me that when -- when he was
12 going to get indicted that he made some presentations to
13 show the government that he didn't do this. He kind of
14 pride -- like I said, he kind of prided himself on these
15 presentations and, hey, this is how I got out of this
16 deal, I went in there with these, you know, graphs and
17 stuff and showed that I wasn't the one that did it. I
18 was conned into doing this. And he -- he told me that
19 that's how he got off this indictment.
20 Q. Okay. But with respect to presentations or
21 books, other than about him and his case, are you only
22 aware of one book or one presentation where he was
23 attempting to pursue or throw other folks under the bus?
24 A. Yes. That's the only one I've heard about.
25 Q. And that's the book that we've been talking

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1 about today, correct?
2 A. I assume.
3 Q. Okay. And how would somebody other than you
4 benefit from having the book?
5 MR. DAVID BELL: ObjectiOnj form.

6 THE WITNESS: The only other people I think
7 would benefit would be people that were representing the
8 people that maybe were in the book that wanted to see
9 what evidence was out there against them. I don't know.
10 Q. (BY MR. JAMES BELL) And then turn around and

11 blame Brandon McCarthy?
12 A. That -- no, that doesn't -- that doesn't come
13 into my mind whatsoever.
14 Q. Have -- have you ever heard of those attorneys
15 saying that about Brandon McCarthy?

16 A. Never .
17 Q. Have you ever heard of Brandon McCarthy having
18 anything to do with putting together, stapling, being
19 involved with, touching this alleged book?

20 A. Never.
21 MR. JAMES BELL: Give me two minutes and
22 then I -- I'm sorry. I know I've said it a couple of
23 times and cried wolf, but . . .
24 Let me just talk to my client.
25 (Break taken)

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EXHIBIT 1
 · MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS

Page 160
1 MR. JAMES BELL: I'm going to suspend the
2 deposition at this time.
3 (Proceedings concluded at 2:51 p.m.)
4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12
13

14
15
16

17
18

19

20

21
22
23
24

25

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EXHIBIT 1
 MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS

Page 161
1 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE
2 WITNESS: RYAN REYNOLDS DATE: NOVEMBER 10, 2017
3 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON
4

5
6

7
8

9
10

11
12

13

14
15

16

17
18

19
20

21
22

23
24

25

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EXHIBIT 1
 MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS

Page 162
1 I, RYAN REYNOLDS, have read the foregoing

2 deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is

3 true and correct, except as noted above.

4

5

6
RYAN REYNOLDS
7

8

9 THE STATE OF

10 COUNTY OF

11

12 Before me,

13 personally appeared RYAN REYNOLDS, known to me (or

14 proved to me under oath or through_________ _

15 (description of identity card or other document) to be

16 the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing

17 instrument and acknowledged to me that they executed the

18 same for the purposes and consideration therein

19 expressed.

20 Given under my hand and seal of off ice this

21 day of December, 2017.

22

23

24
NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR
25 THE STATE OF TEXAS

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EXHIBIT 1
 · MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS

Page 163
1 NO. DC-17-13448

2 BRANDON MCCARTHY ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
)
3 vs. ) 134TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
)
4 )
JOHN/JANE DOES 1-10 ) DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
5

6

7

8 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION

9 DEPOSITION OF RYAN REYNOLDS

10 NOVEMBER 10, 2017

11

12 I, Sherry Folchert, Certified Shorthand Reporter in

13 and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to the

14 following:

15 That the witness, RYAN REYNOLDS, was duly sworn by

16 the officer and that the transcript of the oral

17 deposition is a true record of the testimony given by

18 the witness;

19 That the deposition transcript was submitted on the

20 day of November, 2017, to the witness or to the

21 attorney for the witness for examination, signature and

22 return to me by day of December, 2017;

23 That the amount of time used by each party at the

24 deposition is as follows:

25 James S. Bell - 3 hours, 21 minutes

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EXHIBIT 1
 -MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS

Page 164
1 David Bell - 0 minutes

2 That pursuant to information given to the

3 deposition officer at the time said testimony was taken,

4 the following includes counsel for all parties of

5 record:

6 James S. Bell, Attorney for Plaintiff;

7 David Bell, Attorney for Ryan Reynolds;

8 I further certify that I am neither counsel for,

9 related to, nor employed by any of the parties or

10 attorneys in the action in which this proceeding was

11 taken, and further that I am not financially or

12 otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

13 Further certification requirements pursuant to Rule

14 203 of TRCP will be certified to after they have

15 occurred.

16 Certified to by me this 20th day of November, 2017.

17

18
~~
19 SHERRY FOLCHERT, CSR NO. 6259
Expiration Date: 12/31/19
20 HG Litigation
Firm Registration No. 69
21 2777 North Stemmons Freeway
Suite 1025
22 Dallas, Texas 75207
Phone: 1-888-656-3376
23

24

25

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EXHIBIT 1
 MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS

Page 165
1 FURTHER CERTIFICATION UNDER RULE 203 TRCP

2 The original deposition was/was not returned to the

3 deposition officer on or before the day of

4 December, 2017;

5 If returned, the attached Changes and Signature page

6 contains any changes and the reasons therefor;

7 If returned, the original deposition was delivered to

8 James S. Bell, Custodial Attorney;

9 That $ is the deposition officer's charges

10 to the Plaintiff for preparing the original deposition

11 transcript and any copies of exhibits;

12 That the deposition was delivered in accordance with

13 Rule 203.3, and that a copy of this certificate was

14 served on all parties shown herein on and filed with the

15 Clerk.

16 Certified to by me this - - - day of December, 2017.

17

18

19 SHERRY FOLCHERT, CSR NO. 6259
Expiration Date: 12/31/19
20 HG Litigation
Firm Registration No. 69
21 2777 North Stemmons Freeway
Suite 1025
22 Dallas, Texas 75207
Phone: 1-888-656-3376
23

24

25

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EXHIBIT 1
·MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: $2,000 .. amount

2:51 160:3 adhered 137:6
$
admission 79:17 80:13
3
$2,000 77:3,7,10,13 87:15 88:8,15 adversarial 74:13
90:16 91:3,1892:3,8,15 93:16 adverse 129:12
33 33:15
94:23 95:22 98:6105:6,12,14,19,
23106:1 125:1156:20 157:3 34 33:8 advice 7:19,22 9:8,13,17 46:14
50:22,23 62:1,2 75:21 79:9, 11
$50,000 83:10 124:8 125:4
5
advise 9:4123:10,14
0
5608 136:17 advising 70:19 72:3 75:20
09 13:16 5:00 66:22 Advisors 18:11,17
affect 74:19
1 7
affixed 47:21
1 79:2181:382:6,10,20 83:1,8,12, 7-eleven 34:1 agency 20:15
1984:6,9,12,16,2185:1,7,13,20
agent 20:1463:11,15, 16
86:1,7 87:10, 18,2488:6,13, 16
8
90:22 91:8,12,25 92 :6, 12, 18 93:20 agents 41 :6 63:11
94:2,9,20 95:1396:1,6,11, 17 97:18
8th 116:8 agree 12:19 32:1141:1868:14
98:9,14,23 99:3,9102:12,15,18,24
108:15,19118:20119:18129:11,
103:5 104:1,25 105:10, 17,21,24
14133:11,15,18,25134:12,18
106:3112:3,12115:13116:7 A 137:4152:12
125:5, 11 149:21,24 150:3,5,8, 12,
14,17,19,22,24151 :2,5152:5,23 agreement 32:18112:2,5
a.m. 66:22
155:24156:8,19157:1,5
agreements 20:14111 :18,21,22
abiding 123:2,3
10 13:1651:17 113:5
13 116:11117:12118:4 Abso·· 146:14
ahead 8:2150:1372:9 74:3 79:22
absolutely 35:1 36:5 65:5,8 95 :7 80:23 81 :14 82:17 121 :13
13th 117:25
98:19121 :2,5
allegation 144:6,10 153:10,13
14th 79:14
accepted 76:13, 17 154:16
15 51 :17
account 102:16 allegations 132:15153:17
16 111:11112:25
acknowledge 6:7 alleged 19:10 55:24 88:2 99:1
17 112:25 101 :25 125:7,25 142:9 154:18
acknowledgement 79: 17
158:7159:19
2 act 20:14 21:326:10,17 27:5,17
allegedly 31 :2 63:6 104:4, 16
28:7,14
151 :7
2009 14:8 acted 30:6,13,19114:13133:24
allowed 10:10 20:7,10,13136:24
2010 14:8 action 129:7
Amendment 78:22 79:4,7,14
2013 116:18117:21 activity 20:8 80:15 81:3,7,9,1682:6 87:12,13
90:25 91:2,16, 17 92 :25 93:2 98:21,
2015 15:1346:7,13110:18111 :11, acts 19:11,16 43:17 54:10 22104:3,7,11,12,23105:1112:6,7,
20112:25116:11,18117:13,21 actual 69:25 14,22114:2,6,20,22115:2,3,8
118:4,22124:16125:13128:18 116:3,6140:7,9,24141 :6,9,14
129:2 Adderall 74:24,25 145:17,21148:25149:9,12156:2,7
2016 110:22 111 :20 additional 52:16 157:8,11

2017 111 :5,12,20 address 136:18 amount 53:4

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EXHIBIT 1
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: and/or..Bell

and/or 11 :19 81 :13 112:22 123:4 attorneys' 50 :25 51:10,11 19,23 29:1,9,12,15,18,21,24 30:2,
129:20 132:1147:16 5,8, 11, 15, 18,22,25 31:3,6,10, 12,
August 116:11,18117:12,21
16, 19,24 32:2,5,8,2333:1,3,5,10,
answers 140:19 118:2,3,12,22 124:16128:18129:2
11, 14, 15, 19,21,2334:7,9,12, 15, 18,
anticipate 5:22 author 153:15 2135:4,6,8,9,10,1436:17 38:6,9
40:2,5,7,9, 11, 13, 15, 19,22 41:9,12,
anybody's 95:5 100:6 101 :17 authority 71 :24 79:23 14, 16, 18,25 42:6 43:4,6 44:3,4,6,
anymore 39:16 63:16 aware 20:3 34:5 35:2,14,21,23 10, 1446:1,6,8,11, 17, 18,20,23,24
36:1,10 38:4 59 :2,5,8,23 64:8,10 47:1,4,9, 11, 14, 17,21,23,25 48:2,5,
apologize 43:23 56:23 7,8,9, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18,22,25 49:2,4,
66:6,967:13,18 73 :6 89:11 93:14
apparently 153:12 99:22 107:24 108:3,8, 17 110:3 8,14,16,21,23,24,25 50:1,2,3,5,7,
119:20121:9128:14134:4,12 11, 14,18, 19,21,24 51:13,16,18,21 ,
appeared 137:5, 18 141:21151 :19156:12,16158:2,6, 24 52 :8, 13, 15 54:4, 7' 17 ,20 55:4,8,
approached 37:13 9,22 19,22 56:2,5,17,21 57:6,7,9,10,13
60 :1,2, 12, 18 61:16,18,24 62:4,8,
approximately 6:17 14:18 18:7 10,14,18,20,22,25 64:12,18 65:6,7,
B 9,10,14,16 67:1,3,5,9,12 68:19,22,
article 68:24 77:14133:3 142:25
2569:3,15,18,2170:1,4,6,11,12,
articles 69:8 126:13 132:23 back 37:25 51 :21 57 :17 66:21 17,19,2171:4,7,10,16,21,2572:3,
69:18 82:2,3148 :15 6,7,9, 11, 13, 14,2473:6,12, 15, 16,
Asian 64:11,13
21,24 74:2,4,8,11,15,18 75:13,16,
background 52 :5 69:22
asks 10:8,23 33:21 40 :3 55:20 20,23 76 :20,21 77:4,6, 15, 17 78 :1,
56:2,18103:10152:14 bad 13:11 43 :19 4,8, 10, 15, 18,25 79:3,6, 10,22 80:2 ,
7,8,12,20,23 81:2,4,5,6,11, 14,17'
assert 141 :5,8,13 Barack 145:1
20,22,2482:1,5,7,9,12, 13, 15, 17,
asserting 114:3,6 Barrett 81 :18 21,24 83:2,7,9,18,20 84:4,7,24
85:2,5,8, 11, 14, 18,21,24 86:2,5,8,
assertion 140:24145:16 based 9:13, 17 33:6 40:15 41 :19,20
11, 14, 15, 18,20,23,2587:1,5,7,11,
43:12 44:8 46:14 50:22 114:2,8,20
Assistant 13:18 16,19,22,25 88:4,7,11,14,24 89:1 ,
123:2,20,22 127:9 133:10, 14
6,10, 16, 1890:1,3,6,8,14, 15,20,24
associate 20:7,10 137:11
91 :6,9,13, 14, 19,21,2392:1,4,7,10,
assume 159:2 basic 32:8 80:14 127:21 13, 16, 19,21,24 93:5,6, 11, 14, 18,21,
25 94:3,7 ,10,11,13,18,21,25 95:4,
attempt 81 :12,17 95 :15 basically 59:16 64:4 121 :24 143:1
11 ,14, 19,21,2496:2,4,7,9,12, 15,23
145:14
attempted 79:7 80:21 85:22 97:7,12,15,19,25 98:5,7,10,12 ,15
108:18125:19132:7 basics 121 :16128:7 99:7,10 ,17,19,22,25100:1,2,5,9,
11, 13, 16, 19,21,22,23 101:3,6,13,
attempting 51 :3 87:21150:1 basis 10:1119:9 15, 19,21 102:2,6,8, 10, 13, 19,20,22,
158:23 25 103:3,6, 10, 13, 18,21,24 104:2,
beat 143:22
attorney 13:18 16:20 38:22 39:11, 18,20 105:3,4,7, 11, 15, 18 106:4,5,
beginning 35 :12 13, 16,20,22 107: 1,3,8, 10, 12, 14, 16,
16 47:16 48:4,20 49:11 50 :16 51 :3,
7 97 :9,20 113:17,20,25 114:13 belief 145:25 19108:1,3,6,8,13,15,20,23109:1,
115:10,19116:2133:24136:20 2,8,9,20,22 110:1,3,9, 12,13, 16,24
Bell 5:5,8, 11, 14, 15, 16, 18,20 6:2,6, 111 :1,7,9,14,16,25112:1,2,4,5,8,9,
143:17144:22,25
10 7:7,8,11 ,13,14,17,21,24,25 8:1, 13,15,16,19,21113:1,3,8,10,14,16,
attorney's 51:13132:17 2,4,7,9, 10, 13, 15, 16, 18, 19,22,24 18,22,23 114:1,4,5,7,10,15,17,25
9:1,2,4,6, 10, 18,22 10:1,6,8, 10, 12, 115:1,6,7,8,9, 14, 16, 17,20,22,23,25
attorney/client 7:16 21 :7 47:2
14, 16, 17, 18, 19,20,21,23,25 11 :2 116:2,13, 14 117:8, 10, 16, 18,23,24
114:14,19
12:3,12,17,19,23,2513:7,9,2214:1 118:23 119:6, 15, 17,22,24 120:9, 11
attorneys 45:25 46:2,7,9,12 15:3,7,12,14,1616:16,2117:1,3, 121 :1,3,12, 13 122:20,22 123:6, 13,
47:11, 19 48:15,21 61 :21,23,25 15,1918:12,16,21,2519:19,21,22 19,22124:17,19125:3,6,8,12,21,
96:24 97:14 98 :2 106:9110:18,22 20:2, 18 21 :1,2,5,9,12, 14, 16, 19 23126:1,3,7,8,9,11,16,18,22,24
111:4,11, 18,23 112:24 113:12 22 :7,12 23:4,7,12,14,19,21 24:4,6, 127:1,3,5,7,9 129:10, 13, 15, 17, 19,
114:12,18115:12122:23141 :8 9, 12, 15, 18,2525:3,6,9,11, 13, 16, 23,25 130:23,25 131 :9,12 132:2,4,
143:4144:11159:14 19,22,2526:5,8,12,15, 19,22 27:1, 11, 13,18,20,24 133:1,5,6 134:7,9,
4,8, 11, 15,16,20,2328:2,5,9,12,16,

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EXHIBIT 1
~
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: Bell's .. CBS

17, 18 135:1,2,4, 10,12, 18,21,22,23 16,23 27 :5,12,17,24 28:6,13,20 business 16:22 17:9, 13,25 18:10
136:3,6,8,9, 10, 14,19 137:1,4,7,9, 29 :6,13,19,25 30 :6,12,19 31:1,7, 52 :19 78:20 99:11,20,24 100:8
13, 14, 16, 18,24,25 138:2,4 139:13, 13,20 32 :334:6,10, 16,21,25 35:3,
businesses 52:21 99:13
15,23,25 140:1,2,3,5,11, 14, 16, 17, 15 36:3,6,8 ,12,15,16 37:2,14,16
20,22141:2,5,11,13,25142:3 38:4, 12, 16 39 :2440:6,10, 16, 18 buy 83:17103:1
147:21,25 148:2,5, 10, 12, 15,21,23 41 :4,21 42:8,13, 1843:8,10, 16
149:2,5,7,11,14,16,18,22151:21, 44:1,8, 18,20,24 45:10,17,20 51 :22
23,24 152:3,8, 13, 18,21 153:2 52:4,8,2053:16,19,21 54:3,8,21,25
c
155:22,25 156:3,6,23 157:2,6,7, 18, 55:2356:5,1457:1,18,2258:2,5,12
24159:5,10,21160:1 59:3,6,9,14,23 60:3,6,9 61 :4 62 :7, call 39:17 61 :10,14,19,21 62 :5
15 63:6,9 64:2 67:7 68:2369:7,12 66 :21 77 :21 ,24 78:6 142:6 148:25
Bell's 51 :6
73:9,19 74:5,12 76:18 77:23 79:8 called 22 :14, 16 38:20,23 52:7
benefit 150:20 159:4,7 83:4, 10,13,16 84:11 85:4, 16,23 66:19 125:13, 15,20 143:21,23
86:4,9, 16 88:18,21 89:3,9, 14 90:4 144:21
betrayed 25:20 94:6, 16,2395:5,16 96:19,20,22
big 120:24 97:5,6,2398:3,17 99:2 103:1,21 calling 45 :10 143:20
104:4,15,21106:17,18107:20,24
Bionovelus 102:21 103:2 calls 13:5,6 21: 16 22:7 23:4, 12, 19
108:4, 11 , 17 109:6, 11, 15, 18,23 24:9, 15,25 25:6, 16,23 26:5, 12, 19
bizarre 37 :23 110:6 116:11,25 117:4, 11, 19
27 :1,9,2028:3,10, 17,24 29:10, 16,
118:22119:1,11120:1,7,17121:6
black 102:9 2230:3,9,16,23 31:4,11, 17,24 32 :6
122:3,10,18123:1,13124:11 ,15,21 34:13,19 40 :11,12 42:1 44:11 54:5,
blame 159:11 125:18,24126:4,12,19127:10,11 ,
18 55:4 60 :12 67:9 73:12,21 74:8,
17,22128 :7,11129:3,6,15,19,25 1594:11145:1
bleeding 67:2 130:3,6,13,17,18,21131:6,12,16,
boat 49:15 17,24132:7,14,21133:2,7,10,14, Cameron 75:7,11,17,24 76:3
18,22 134:5, 13,22 135:4 136:1 83:23 84:785:3,9,15,22 86:3 88:1,
Bob 64:9 65:4 66:8 137:5141:23142:10143:3,4 9 92 :14,20 93:9 94:14,22 105:22
144:2,21 145:3146:2,6,12 147:8, 114:23141 :7,14157:2
book 77:7,10,13 86:22 ,23 87 :2,14,
20 88:2,9,10,15 ,18,22 89:3,8,9,14, 15152:9,16153:4,11154:7,13,17
candor 26:17
18 90 :12 92 :2,9, 15,20 ,23,25 93 :3, 155:14,17156:1159:11,15,17
9, 17 ,22 94:4, 15,22 95:9,15 96:3,8, care 28:14 64:2499:11,16,20,24
Brandon's 37 :21 42 :24 52 :2
13 98:6 105:4,6, 14,20,23 106:2 100:7101 :2,18102 :1107:7125:7
118:7 123:22
124:24145:17,20,23,24,25 146:1, 135:6
breached 24:2 29:19 34:16 73:9
5,11,19,24147:8 ,16,20,24148 :3, careful 41 :5 42:1 o 121 :7
11149:13,23150:2,4,6,9,13,16,18, break 43:7 51 :17,20 110:12, 14, 15
21,23,25151:4,6,10,13,14,16,17, careless 144:19
139:24 140:4 159:25
20,24152:7,10,17,18,25153:2,5, Carl 38:20 39:1,3,9,12,21 60:16
14, 15,22,23 154:3,6,12, 18,23,24, Brian 73 :17154:17
143:15,18
25155:10,12,15 ,18,21156:2,10, bring 125:19127:5128:10131:13
13,15,17,21 157:3,8,12,14158:3, Carl's 39:11
22,25 159:4,8, 19 bringing 104:21127 :13131:17
case 19:4,10 47:6,13,20 50 :17
books 107:16158:9,21 broker 82:16 52 :3 56:10 58:23,24 59 :5,24 63:24
65 :18 67:14,17 68 :7 72 :25 73 :2
bound 90:11,12 brokerage 102:16 75 :8, 10, 19 83:24 84:8 114:8
Bowie 84:14,18 Brooke 16:6135:19,20 121 :19,22128:4135:5,9136:15
142:5144:20,22145:2155:8
box 102:9 Brooks 52 :23 156:22 158:5,21
Braden 72: 18,20 73:2 brought 5:9 16:2,5,14 55:25 56:14 cases 84:11107:24108:9,10,16
125:19
Brando 53:13 cash 5:13 90:16 91 :3
building 120:24
Brandon 5:1513:10,13,15,17,21 Castle 38:21 39:4,20 41 :2
14:2,8,12,1415:2,1716:1918:2 bunch 22 :23
19:1,7 21 :23 22 :1,5 23:3,9,17,24 cautious 121 :7
bus 158:23
24:2,7 ,13,19,23 25:4,14,20 26:3,9, CBS 133:3 134:22

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EXHIBIT 1
i1m
·MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: Center .. conversations

Center 117:4 collect 51 :4 confidentiality 124:1

certify 8:24 comment 6:7,8131 :20 conflict 120:18121:8122:11
123:11
cetera 52:4 63:12 65:12 142:20 comments 20:23 97:13122:16
145:12 123:9 conflicts 52:9 56:6,9 74:6121 :18
123:15
chain 79:19 80:5 commercial 17:5
confused 64:5142:15
chance 64:19 commit 69:23,24
confusing 127:25
change 136:18 140:6,8,23 committed 22:1 31 :2 32:3 43:16
54:10,22 99:23100:6,25 101 :17 connect 37:3
charge 127:12
committing 101 :25 connect's 37:3
charged 112:23
common 154:5 connection 76:13, 16
charges 69:25
communication 12:7113:17,19 conned 158:18
Chavez 135:19
communications 7:12 48:24 conscience 138:1
cheated 25:4
49:1,5 106:23 115:18
Conscientious 138: 12
check 52:9 56:6,9 123:11, 15
companies 19:6 64:17 68:6
131 :22 considered 80:11
122:8,9132:16142:16145:13
checks 52:5 120:18 122:11 conspiracy 69:23,24
company 99:6122:17125:20
child 75:9,10,18 128:9 conspire 97:3 129:16,20

circumstances 9:21 141 :21 compelled 79:13,25 80:3,10 conspired 86:3

cited 70:25 71:9,17,20 72:1,15 competent 73:19 conspiring 19:12

civil 10:16 complaint 67:24142:18 Constitution 79:15

claim 103:8, 16 completely 122:18 Construed 80:12,13

claims 94:16 compounding 118:11 120:2 consult 113:25

clarify 83:23 concept 128:10 consultant 107:4,6, 11

clean 72:12 81:11128:24140:21 concerned 63:23,24 68: 1,8 consultation 111 :10
142:17146:23
clear 9:12 12:11 15:18 43:7 49:17 consultations 114:12
53:20 56:22 84:1 147:14156:4 concerns 68:6
consulted 48: 16 111 :4
client 5:12,14 8:5 9:412:5113:24 concluded 160:3
contact 61 :1 98:21 123:24
126:20 143:16 144:4,5 159:24
conclusion 8:5, 11 10:9, 13,24
contacted 112:19
clients 24:14,20,2425:5,15,21 21:17 22:8 23:5,13,20 24:10,16
26:4, 11, 17,2427:7,13, 18,25 28:7, 25:1,7, 17,2326:6,13,20 27:2,9,21 contempt 70:25 71:9,18,20 72:2,
15,22 29:7,2030:1,7,13,20 31 :8, 28:3, 10, 17,24 29:10, 16,22 30:3,9, 16
14,2134:11,1740:152:669:13 16,23 31:4,11, 17 ,25 32:6 33:22
continue 32:23 140:8
73:20 74:7,14103:23104:5,16,17, 34:13, 1940:3,12 42:1 44:11 54:5,
22,23 121 :7 122:15 123:4,5 125:25 18 55:5,20 56:3,18 60:13 67:10 continued 123:23
126:5,6,8,14,21131:7134:14,15, 73:13,22 74:9, 16 94:12 103:11, 19
148:6152:14 contract 34:17
23,24137:12139:17,20,21152:11
153:16154:12,15 contractual 31 :21
conduct 22:2,623:3,10, 17 32:4
close 14:24 36:23 40:10, 17, 18 41 :22,2444:2,8,12 contrary 49:20
54:1555:2,3,16,24 73:11 79:17
cognizant 121 :10 80:14 95:17 97:23 99:23100:7 control 84:19
coincidence 136:23 101:1,17120:12,13141:24 conversation 37:24 46:4 48:3, 14,
confidential 126:20 19 49:10
Collar 18:11,17
conversations 49:11 115:18

hglitigation.com
EXHIBIT 1
~
·MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: convicted .. defendants

157:19 court 5:7 6:5 11 :12 70 :25 71 :23 68:19,25 69:15 70:1,6,12,19 71:4,
72 :25 80:9 10,2172:3,7,13,2473:12,15,21,24
convicted 6:11 20:11 69:22 70:15,
74:8,15 75:13,20 76:20 77:4,15
22 covered 109:23
78:1,8,15,25 79:10,22 80:2,8,12,23
conviction 20:23 126:5 Craig 72:22 73:2 81:4,6,14,20,24 82: 1, 7,9,13, 17 ,24
83:7, 18 84:4,2485:11,18,24 86:5,
convoluted 64 :16144:7 crazier 42:22
11, 18,23 87:1,5, 7, 16,2288:4,11,24
cool 22:24 64:22 140:1 created 151:7153:14154:6,12,23, 89:6, 1690:1,6,14,20 91:6,13, 19,23
25 92:4,10,16,2193:5,11,18,2594:7,
cooperating 66:2 11, 18,2595:11,19,2496:4,9,15
creating 152:9,10 97:7,15,25 98:7,12 99:7,17,19,25
copies 156:12
cried 159:23 100:2,9,13,21101:3,13,19102:2,6,
copy 88 :22 90:17,18 91 :4,10,18,22 10,19,22 103:3,10,18,24104:18
92:1,8,15,20,22,23 93:8,17,22 96:3 crimes 31:1 105:3,7,15106:4,13,20107:1,8,12,
105:20,23106:2125:1148:11 14 108: 1,6, 13,20 109:8,20 110:1,9,
criminal 19: 11, 16 20:8,23 42:25
149:13150:15,25155:20 156:9,15, 13,24 111:7,14,25 112:2,5,8,9, 15,
43:17 44:2 54:10,15 55:2 63:25
21157:12 16,19113:1,8,14,16,22114:1,5,15,
70:16 71:14,17 79:17,20 80:6,14
correct 5:17 7:2,4 9:15,18,19,24 84:23 99:23100:7,25101:1,17 25115:6,8,9,16,17,21,23116:2,13
10:7,2211:3,6,7,10,15,1612:14,16 106:10120:12126:5 117:8,23 118:23 119:15,22 120:9
13:2,3 17:14, 18 19:1420:5,8,9,11, 121:1,12122:20123:6,19124:17
criminally 60:4 131 :8 125:3,8,21126:1,7,9,16,22,24
12,1523:11,14,15,18,2124:3,8,11,
14,20,2425:5,15, 18,21,24 26:4,7, crook 42:2445:1119:1 127:3,7129:13,17,23130:23131:9
11,14, 18,21,2527:3,7,10,13,14, 19, 132:2, 11, 18,24 133:5 134:7, 17
cross 154:21 135:1,10,21,23136:3,6,9137:1,7,
22 28:1,4,8, 11, 15, 18,22,25 29:8,
11,14,17,20,23 30:1,4,7,10,14,17, custody 75:9, 10, 19 13, 16,24 138:2 139: 13,25 140:2,
21,24 31:2,5,8,9,15,18,23 32:1,4,7, 11,16 141 :11,25147:21,25148:5,
1434:11,1443:13,17 44:4,5,9 45:8
cute 135:24,25 12,15,21149:2,7,14,18151:21
46:19,21 51 :1,253:8,15, 17, 18,24, 152:3, 13,21 155:22 156:3,23
25 54:11,12,16,19,23,24 55:6,9,10, D 157:6, 18 159:5
12, 13, 18,21 56:1,4,6,7, 11, 12,16, 19 day 38:23 52 :12 120:23
57:4,5,8 60:4,5 63:3,4,765:13,15, Dallas 68:24 69:7 142:25 143:1
18, 19,22,23 66:4,567:8,11 68:12 deal 48:15 64:19 67:22 128:6
70:23,24 71 :1,2 72:10 77:3 86:10, damage 32:1 o 86:4 130:1142:5,21,22155:7,13158:16
17,20,21 91 :5,20 96:24 97:10, 11,
damaged 29:25 dealing 27:18 48:14 49:9 97:8
1498:18,19,22 101 :18,20,22,23
104:5,6,9 107:25 108:2,5,7, 12, 14 date 13:1414:23113:24114:11 dealings 28 :21 43:12122:19
109:7,9,16,17113:9117:5,13 124:5 133:10, 12, 14, 16, 19,23 137:5
dates 13:12111:10
118:9, 11, 13, 15,22 119:20,21,23 141 :6
120:7,8, 10, 15, 16, 18, 19,20,21 daughter 135:12
deals 130:4
121:22,23,25122:1,3,4,11,12,15,
David 5:8,14,16,20 6:6 7:7,8,14
16, 19,21 123:5,7, 12, 15, 16, 18,24, dealt 28 :14
8:4,10,15,19 9:410:1,4,8,12,16,18,
25 124:2,3,6,7,9, 10, 12, 13, 16, 18,
20,2312:3,17,2313:7,22 15:3,7,14 December 15:13
22,23127:14,15,19,20 129:7,8
16:1617:1518:12,2119:19,22
131:19,20133:20134:5135:9,11 deceptive 24:23
20:18 21:5,12, 16 22:723:4,12, 19
137:6,8, 12, 17 ,20,21,23 138: 1,3,5,
24:4,9, 15,25 25:6, 11, 16,22 26:5, decision 84:19
7,9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19,21,23,25 139:2,
12, 19 27: 1,8, 15,20 28:2,9, 16,23
4,6,8,10,12141:7,15,16,17,18,19, decline 79:12
29:9,15,2130:2,8,15,2231:3,10,
20,24146:13147:9,11,12,17,18
16,24 32:5,23 33:3,10,14,21 34:7, defamation 21:15,18,2032:9,19,
151:8157:10159:1
12,18 35:4,8,10 36:17 38:6 40:2,7, 21 33:6 34:3
counsel 5:8 7:19,23 8:4 9:9 10:3 11,19 41:14,2544:3,10 46:1,8,20
47:1, 14,21,2348:2,8,11, 13,22
defamatory 34:5 132:22
19:19 46:14 50:23 62:2 72:24
75:21 79:9, 11 100:10 125:4 156:5 49 :2,8, 16,23,25 50 :2,5, 11, 18,21 defamed 24 :8
51:16,2452:13 54:4,17 55:4,19
couple 78:13107:21159:22 defendants 55: 18
56 :2,17 57:6,10 60:1,12 61 :16,24
62:8, 14, 18,22 65:6,9, 14 67:3,9

hglitigation.com

EXHIBIT 1
~
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: definition .. existing

definition 33:17 discussions 33:6 enter 20:13
defraud 109:24 divulge 139:16 entered 93:13
defrauded 25:14 doctor 119:19 entities 31 :22 55:25
delay 57:11 doctors 118:11 entity 34:17
denying 77:12,17 documents 71 :6 Entry 116:12,24
department 68:1, 11 103:9, 16 DOD 65:24 66:7,18 equitable 28:21 138:16
132:8
DOJ 155:9 ethical 123:3124:4133:15137:6
depo 64:20 evidence 21 :25 22:4 23:2, 16 24:2,
dollar 53:3
deposed 6:24 7,22 25:14 26:3,9,16,23 27:12,17,
dollars 53:2 24 28:6, 13,20 29:2,3,5, 13, 19,25
deposition 5:256:1,13 7:2,6 10:7, 30:6,12,19 31:1,7,13,20 32:3
Donson 52:23 53:1
22 11:15,17 22:23 41:10160:2 34:10,16 39:23 41:21 54:1,9,16,21
door 37:7 38:2 55:1,12,16 56:13,25 60:3 65:20
details 121:19,21
double 23:8 43:22 56:22 134:9 67:6 68:23 69:6, 11, 16 73:8, 17
device 109:24 74:5,12 79:19 80:5,18 86:9,16
146:8147:13
difference 12:13,20 13:4 89:2,8,13 95:5,8 96:20 100:1,3,6,
downtown 15:4, 18 18:3 15,24101:14,16103:7,14106:17
differently 66:12, 17 108:11109:5,11,14,18,23110:5
draft 47:19 50:16
diligent 73:20 125:18,23126:3,12,19130:11,20
drafted 46:15 47:5 131:1,5,23132:6,14,21133:2,7
direct 12:13, 14,20,21 21 :25 22:4, 134:21 135:7 144:3 146:25 155:1
drink 17:23
12, 17, 1923:2,9,16,2324:1,6,12, 159:9
18,22 25:3, 13, 1926:2,8,15, 16,22 drop 145:1
27:4, 11, 16,23 28:5, 12, 19 29: 1,3,5, evil 30:13
drugs 75:5143:24
12,18,24 30:5,11,18,25 31:6,12,19 ex-girlfriend 143:21
32:2 34:9, 15 39:23 54:1,9 56:13,25 drum 126:4
60:2 65:20,23 66:1 67:6 68:22 exact 13:14
duly 5:3
69:2, 11,1673:8,16 74:4,11 86:8,15 EXAMINATION 5:4
89:2,8, 13 100:1,3,5,6, 15,24 101 :7, Dustin 19:5, 17 142:20
8, 14, 16 103:6, 14 106:16 109:5, 11, exclude 5:21
14,18,22110:5114:9126:11,18
duties 24:2 29:20 123:3137:6
excluded 5:21 97:13
130:25 131 :23 132:6, 13,20 133: 1,6
134:21 E Excuse 5:8 94:11 151 :21
directed 64:3 exhibit 79:21 80:25 81 :382:6,10,
E.g. 79:24 19,25 83:8, 12, 19 84:5,9, 12, 16,21,
directly 59:1060:1761:20109:13 25 85:6,12,19,25 86:6 87:10,17,23
earlier 20:19 67:21 101 :11 107:23
dirt 39:8 88:5,12,16 90:22 91:8,12,2592:6,
143:17145:18146:11149:4152:6,
12, 18 93:20 94:2,9,20 95:13 96:1,
Disciplinary 73:10 24
6, 11, 17 97:18 98:9, 14,23 99:3,9
disclose 27:24 39:24 139:16 earning 76:11 102:12, 15, 18,24 103:5 104:1,25
105:10,17,21,24106:3112:3,12
discuss 16:2217:1318:16 53:5 easier 10:4
115:13116:7125:5,10148:16
55:14,15 128:17 eating 36:20 149:21,24 150:3,5,8, 11, 14, 17' 19,
discussed 17:7,20 19:7 51 :23 22,24 151 :2,5 152:5,23 155:24
end 97:9 123:9
53:9,18,2155:2363:5 89:15 156:8, 19,25 157:5
112:25118:21119:18120:13,14 enforcement 20:15 65:21 66:2
exist 108:16,22,24156:12
121:15149:4 engaged 20:8 22:623:3,1o,17,24
existed 157:14
discussing 52:2053:8,13, 16 26:23 29: 13 40:10, 16, 18 41 :22,23
44: 1,8 109:23 110:6 existence 111: 17
discussion 20:1
engaging 54:15 existing 104:22 123:5 126:6,14,21

hglitigation.com

EXHIBIT 1
~
,MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: explain .. gal

131:7134:14,24 fictitious 103:8, 16 110:7 105:3,7,15 106:4,20 107:1,8,12
108:1,6, 13,20 109:8,20 110:1,9,24
explain 127:24 128:1 156:4 fidelity 28:7
111:7,14,25 113:1,8, 14 114:15,25
explained 66:12 fiduciary 29:19 115:6, 19,23 116:13 117:8,23
118:23119:22120:9121:1,12
exploited 126:19 figure 38:1 97:2 128:5 122:20123:6,19124:17125:3,9,21
expose 139: 19 file 67:14 126:1,7,9,16,22129:13,17,23
130:23 131 :9 132:2, 11, 18,24 133:5
Express 67:20 filed 12:10 46:18,19 47:6,13,20 134:7,17135:10 137:7,13,24138:2
50:17 51:4,9,12 67:16 72:25 139:13141 :25147:21148:12
extort 85:22 86:394:5,16
filibuster 50:8 149:2 151 :22 152:3, 13,21 155:22
156:3,24 157:6 159:5
F final 15:1
Fort 135:5
find 53:23 96:21 97:3
fabricate 94:15 95:15 97:21 forthright 137:20
fine 48:1181:582:13135:14
fact 40:15 41:19,20 52:15 68:16 140:16 Forty-six 33:12
80:21
finish 50:5,6 70:6 80:8 forward 129:16,20
facts 22:1,5 23:23 26:3 27:25 28:6,
fired 39:16 found 37:22
13,20 37:13 54:9 55:15 57:1 58:25
60:15 69:6,1173:9,1774:5,12 firm 56:9120:24153:19 Fourteen 135:16
89:2,13100:25101:16103:7,14
106:17110:6126:12130:20131:1, firm's 144:5 frame 94:23 95:1,5
5,24132:7,14,21134:22135:7 firsthand 45:2 frank 137:22
142:12
Fleming 38:20 60:16143:18 fraud 29:14 69:23,24,25 70:22,23
failed 39:24
folks 5:6,12 6:4 20:10 43:12 54:14 fraudulent 103:8,16110:7
fair 22:23 27:12 28:21 32:16,17 56:15 65:21,22 66:3 67:8 69:14
36:2 41 :24 58:4 68:18 69:5 82:6 fraudulently 94:15 95:15 97:22
82:16 101 :22 102:20 126:15 131 :2
89:10,12100:23101:15138:14 132:10141:22158:23 freaking 38:23
146:10
follow 10:15 36:3 friend 15:516:2,4,9,14 37:17
faith 26:10 38:20 60:6 77:22 83:23 84:18
Forest 102:4116:17117:4 127:23
faithful 24:13137:12
forget 15:6 friends 16:19 45:20 78:10 134:1
fall 125:13
form 8:12, 14 10:8, 11, 14, 15,24 157:16
false 21 :22 85: 16 103:8, 15 110:7 11:19,2112:17,2313:7,2215:3,14
134:4, 13 front 71 :11
16:1617:1518:12 21:17 22:8 23:5,
falsified 109:19 13,2024:4,9,1625:1,7,16,22 26:6, fucked 37:20
12,2027:1,8,15,2128:2,9,16,23
fault 43:23104:13 fully 27:24
29:9, 15,21 30:2,8, 15,22 31:3,10,
FBI 42:9 63:10 65:2,17142:15 16,24 32:5 33:4,10,21 34:7,12,18 functions 80:14
143:7144:13145:7 35:4,13 36:17 38:6 40:2,7,11,19
funny 146:19
41 :25 44:3, 10 46:20 51 :24 52:13
federal 126:4 54:4, 1755:4,19 56:17 57:660:1,13 future 134: 15
fee 50:25 51:11,13 111 :17,21,22 62:8,14 65:6,9,14 67:10 68:20,25
fuzzies 68:16
112:1,4113:4130:14 69:15 71 :21 73:15,22 74:9, 16
76:20 77:4,15 78:1,15 82:17 83:18 fuzzy 68:14
feel 45:14 84:24 85:5, 11, 18,24 86:5, 11, 18
fees 51:3,1 o 112:23 87:16,2288:4,11,2489:6,16 90:1,
G
6, 14,20 91:6,13, 19,2392:4,10, 16,
felon 6:11 2193:5,11,18,2594:7,18,25 95:11,
19,24 96:4,9, 15 97:25 98:7' 12 gain 118:7
felony 11 :8 20:11
99:7,25100:2,9101:3,13,19102:2, gal 135:18
felt 45:11, 12, 13 63:25 144:18 10,19,22103:3,10,18,24104:18

hglitigation.com

EXHIBIT 1
~.
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: Garza ..implicate

Garza 117:20 63:5,8 64:6,9 65:1,17,20 66:2 67:6, Hillstone 36:20 37:13 46:5 59:15
13,16 68:8,14 77:3,7,9,13,20 78:5 60:17143:18
Gates 14:16,21 15:1818:719:1
80:21 81 :13 83:22 84:14,23 85:10
60:19 61:1,4,6,10,12,1962:6,12 hired 35:1836:3,6,1 o 83:24 84:8,
86:9, 16 88:3,8, 15, 19,23 89:4, 15, 19
63:1,3 81 :19 98:11,21 99:1 116:19, 10
90:1691:3,1192:3,8,1593:16,22,
25117:5,12122:15123:5 24 94:5, 15,23 95:22,23 96:3,8, 14 Hoffman 79:24
Gates' 62:6 99:5105:5,14,19,23106:1,24
Hoi 143:19
124:25 131 :25 132:22 143:5
gave 52:11 93:21 120:1 147:17150:7151 :7,16152:1,20 home 63:21
general 113:11 153:15 154:6, 12,23 155:1,4,8, 12,
Homeland 132:8
14,21156:9,20 157:15,22 158:4,7,
gentleman 15:6 117:19 10, 11 honest 42:17 124:4 133:11, 19
girl 136:4 143:20 Halsey's 67:22 133:8 155:5 honesty 27:18
give 23:22 32:24 39:8 52:16 54:13, hand 36:2198:15,20151:4 Honorable 138:4,20
21,25 57:9, 10 63:3 124:8 127: 1, 17
153:24 156:9 159:21 handed 154:14 hookup 41:4

giving 33:1 63:20 handling 144:22 hoping 68:10

glad 49:25 50:6 happen 39:19 98:17 hospital 119:19

gladly 82:1,3 happened 35:12 71:22124:20 hospitals 118:11

good 26:10 43:2 63:20 135:15 happy 149:5 hotel 15:4,6,1816:1518:3124:20
157:22 harm 32:20131:3153:1 hour 14:1815:2518:7 51:17
Gosh 107:21 harmed 24:19 60:10 house 65:24 66:7
government 21:480:18158:13 harms 33:19 Howard 136:9
graphs 158:16 Harvard 136:2,4,5,6 Howell 81:18
great 84:2 heads 99:6 huge 135:5
grossly 31 :14 health 99:11, 15,20,24 100:7 Huh-uh 51:8
Grunewald 80:15 101:2,18,25 107:7 125:7 135:6
hundreds 135:6
guess 19:12 39:10,13 58:19 75:9 hear 12:22 45:24131 :12143:14
144:6, 10 145:20 hurt 146:20
77:24 99:14119:14,15136:24
142:13143:6144:12147:3 heard 11:1838:7,15 40:20 41 :5
Gus 19:3 54:14 55:12,23 77:24 42:14 43:11 45:22,25 46:2 60:16,
78:5,1180:2281:13 87:14,20 99:5 22 61:5 77:2196:19109:10125:14
106:24120:1,6122:10,19124:8 136:13142:2,7,9,22143:2,6,12,15 ID 16:23 17:2 134:2
127:24 146:1, 11 147:6, 16,17 ,20 144:1,9,21,25 145:4,22,23,24 idea 39:9 88:25 89:20 105:11, 13,
150:4151:7152:20153:16155:17 146:18152:15158:24159:14,17 19,22,25
156:15 hearing 58:18,21 identify 5:9 110:21 111 :3 113:19
guy 16:19 36:21,25 37:3,7 38:2 hearsay 59:20 142:1 114:18
42:19 43:1146:553:1 59:15,16,18
60:17 64:11 77:21 78:5143:15,18, held 151 :3,4 identity 110:17
19 helped 47:19 50:16 56:14103:22 ill 30:6 36:8
guys 36:19137:22 126:13131:25153:15 illegal 22:2 41 :22,23 55:2 130:3
helping 134:2 Impartial 138:24
H hey 38:21 39:5 41 :4 96:20 135:21 impedes 21 :6
158:15
half 15:25 implicate 95:16 97:22 141 :22
higher 71 :24
Halsey 42:5,7,8 61:562:10,13

hglitigation.com
EXHIBIT 1
~
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: implicating .. James

implicating 141 :23 instructed 12:4 92:7,14 involved 82:22 149:25 150:1
155:7159:19
implication 152:8 instructing 49:8
involves 71 :23
important 39:2 instructions 11 :20
involving 16:22 79:1 97:8
impression 121 :3 instructs 11 :24
IPOS 99:6
improper 144:24 integrity 27:6133:20,24
IR 58:18
in-person 13:21 intent 149:23
irrespective 43:11
inaccurate 134:4,13 interacted 107:20
IRS 37:3, 17 41 :4,6 44:21 45:20
inadvertently 149:9 interaction 124:6
58:20 59:2 77:21,22 78:5 143:13
inappropriate 124:21 interactions 106:24
issuance 133:7
incident 36:18 interested 52:1
issue 104:8
including 25:15 57:2 68:7 84:11 interests 74:6
96:23 98:2 J
interfered 31 :20
incriminate 148:3
interject 20:19
James 5:11,15,18 6:2,10 7:11,17,
incriminating 80:18
interrupting 47:24 48:10 24,25 8:1,7,13,16,22,24 9:1,6,10
indicating 36:24 37:8 46:17 61 :11 10:4,6,10,14,17,19,21,2511:2
intimate 121:19,21
152:7 12:12,19,2513:914:1 15:12,16
intimidate 37:23108:18109:6,12, 16:2117:1,3,1918:16,2519:21
indicted 41:7 44:21155:6158:12
15 20:2 21:1,2,9,14, 19 22:1223:7,14,
indictment 158:19 21 24:6, 12, 1825:3,9,13, 19,25
intimidating 36:22
26:8, 15,22 27:4, 11, 16,23 28:5, 12,
indifferent 145:6
introduce 5:6 6:4 1929:1,12,18,2430:5,11, 18,25
indirect 12:13,21,25 22:18 59:13 31:6,12,19 32:2,8 33:1,5,11,15,19,
introducing 99:5
142:11,12 23 34:9, 15,21 35:6,9, 14 38:9 40:5,
invade 7:15 9, 13, 15,22 41:9,12, 16, 18 42:6
individual 79:25 43:4,644:4,6,1446:6,11,23 47:4,
invest 83:5, 1O
individuals 68:7 17,25 48:5,7,8,9,12,17,18,25 49:4,
investigate 36:12 37:4 38:5,16 14,21,2450:1,3,7,14, 19,24 51 :18,
inferred 152:6,24 2152:8,1554:7,20 55:8,22 56:5,21
132:9
influence 84:18 57:7,9, 1360:2,18 61 :1862:4,10,
investigated 35:15 37:15 101 :9 20,25 64:12,18 65:7,10,16 67:1,5,
informant 86:10,17 12 68:22 69:3, 18,21 70:4, 11, 17 ,21
investigating 36:15,16 38:13,17
information 39:25 63:12,14,20 59:2 71:7,16,25 72:6,9,11,14 73:6,16
69:13 97:22 109:19 110:22 118:10, 74:2,4, 11, 18 75:16,23 76:21 77:6,
investigation 37:1859:8,14,24 1778:4,10, 18 79:3,6 80:7,20 81 :2,
14 127:17 131 :25 139:16,20
62:6 77:23 108:4 5,11,17,22 82:5,12,15,21 83:2,9,20
142:19143:8145:12154:4,24
investigations 108:9, 16,22,24 84:785:2,5,8,14,21 86:2,8, 14, 15,
informer 20:14 21 :3 20,25 87:11,19,25 88:7,14 89:1,10,
109:3
initial 111:1o113:25 114:11 1890:3,8,15,24 91:9,14,21 92:1,7,
investigator 34:24 35:3 36:3, 11 13, 19,2493:6,14,21 94:3, 10, 13,21
injure 109:24 95:4,14,2196:2,7,12,2397:12,19
investigators 35:15,17,22
innocent 80:15, 16 98:5, 10, 15 99:10,22 100:1,5, 11, 16,
investments 143:22 19,22,23 101:6,15,21 102:8, 13,20,
inquiring 70:7 25 103:6, 13,21 104:2,20 105:4, 11,
investors 142:25
insist 5:23 18106:5,16,22107:3,10,16,19
invocation 79:16 80:9 148:25 108:3,8, 15,23 109: 1,2,9,22 110:3,
lnstagram 102:13,17 12,16111:1,9,16112:1,4,13,21
invoke 79:13 81:3,9
113:3, 10, 18,23114:4,7,10, 17
instruct 35:7 49:6150:13157:3
invoking 81 :6 115:1,7,14,20,25116:14117:10,

hglitigation.com
~
EXHIBIT 1
· MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: Jim .. man

16,18,24119:6,17,24120:11 knowledge 12:13, 14,20,21 13:1 lie 11 :9 32:13 33:23 34:3
121:3,13 122:22 123:13,22 124:19 19:1322:1,4,13,17,19,2123:9,16,
life 10:4 142:6
125:6, 12,23 126:3,8, 11, 18 127:1,5, 2324:1,7'13, 19,2225:4,14,20
9129:10,15,19,25130:25131:12 26:1,2,9,16 27:5 28:6 29:6 30:12 Lifelock 17:10
132:4, 13,20 133:1,6 134:9, 18 31:1,1334:16 36:14 38:12 40:16
limited 57:3 123:21 124:5
135:2,4, 12, 18,22 136:8, 10, 14, 19 41 :21 44:9 ,14, 15, 18 45:2,22 52:2
137:4,9, 14, 18,25 138:4 139:15,23 54 :9 56 :20 57:1,21 59:13 63:2 link 79:19 80:4
140:1,3,5,14,17,20,22 141 :2,5,13 65:23 66:1 69:6, 11 73:8, 17 74:5,12
List 46:6
142:3 148:2, 10,23 149:5, 11, 16,22 89:2,13100:6,24101:7,8,16103:7,
151 :23,24 152:8,18 153:2 155:25 14106:17108:10110:5,19118:7 listened 123:9 124:12 131 :21
156:6157:2,7,24159:10,21 160:1 123:21126:12130:20131 :1,5,23
132:6,14,21134:15,21142:11 listing 120:3
Jim 76:1,5 84 :1O85:3,9,15,22 86:3
153:9154:5 live 136:24
88:1,992:14,19 93:10 94:22
105:25106:5,9115:4141 :17157:2 Krause 69:12142:17,18145:9,10 living 33:7 76:7,9,11136:15
Joe 34:1106:9117:20141:19 local 53:1
L
Judge 71:3,8,11 91 :21 99:4 long 14:1715:24136:17
106:15
lasted 18:7 longer 60:18
jury 5:7 6:5
Jaw 20:15 49:13,18,19,20 65:21 looked 36:21 ,23 37:25
Justice 68:1,11 66:2 114:8 120:24 123:21 127:18
lot 41:1053:1058:1767:21142:2
136:12,13156:4
143:5
K Lawful 139:7
loyal 26:4 133:23
lawsuit 12:10 70:13 71:12125:19
K&I 14:16,21 15:1818:719:1 loyalty 133:24
128:14154:15
60:19 61:1,3,6,10,12,19 62:6,12
63:1,381:1898:11,2199:1116:19, lawyer 7:7,12,218:3,99:3,13,17,
M
24117:5,12122:15123:5 18,22 11 :19 21 :8 23:1 75:8, 15
106:6122:23124:2 157:19
keepmyid.com 17:4,5 mad 45:15
lawyers 12:7,9107:11112:10,17
keepmyid.org 17:14
113:5 made 21 :22 29:6 32:1934:6,1o
keepmyid.org. 17:7 45:17 58:14 65:3 85 :16 99:15
leak 139:19 110:8122 :16134:5,14142:21
Kelley 5:13 144:17147:17154:16157:23
learn 96:12
158:4,7,10,12
Kendall 106:9,15141:19
learned 59:15143:4
Kepler 19:3 52 :1 57 :13 77:25 78:5, mail 69:24 70:23
leave 148:21
1180:2281 :1387:15,20106:24 main 144:12
132:22147:17150:4151:17152:1 led 9:21
155:17156:15 maintain 124:1140:8
left 90 :23
Kevin 69:12142:17145:9,11 make 8:2410:2,4 32:25 56:21
legal 8:5,11 10:9, 13,23 21 :17 22:7 83:25 94:1697:22104:10114:8
kickback 106:18 23:5, 12, 19 24:10, 1625:1,6,17,23 120:23 123:8 128:3,5 129:25 130:3
26:6, 13,20 27:2,9,21 28:3, 10, 17,24 154:9
kind 13:11 17:9,25 26:24 27:6
29:10,16,22 30 :3,9, 16,23 31:4,11,
30:19 35:21 36:21,22 39:25 45:12 makes 154:10
17,25 32 :6,24 33:1,22 34:13,19
55:3 64:16 77:7 89:8,21 95:16
40:3, 12 42:1 44:11 54:5, 18 55:5,20 making 79:23 84:19153:19
128:7133:25134:23141 :24142:5,
56:3,18 60:12 62:167:1073:13,22 157:15
6152:7153:24157:15158:13,14
74:9,15 94:12103:11,19123:3
kinds 142:7 124:8137:6139:9148:6152:14 malice 30:20

knew 147:15154:13 Legitimate 139:11 man 38:21,24 39:1,5,15,17,1941:4
42:9 63:19 65:3 117:19
knowingly 149:9 liar 40:6

hglitigation.com
~
EXHlBIT 1
·MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: mark .. needed

mark 80:25 media 17:5 mixed 67:19
marked 79:21 Medical 117:4 moment 15:23

market 17:8, 13 medications 74:19,21 money 76:13, 16, 17 93:21 95:22
99:15 128:4,6
marketing 17:8, 1o,13 meet 8:1813:9,17 38:24 63:10
140:13 months 15:10143:23
Massachusetts 136:6
meeting 14:7,9,14,17,19,2115:1, Moral 138:8
Matalee 136:17 10,2416:1,5,14,2217:3,12,18,20,
morning 66:21 68:24 69:8
material 39:24 2118:3,6,1519:1,2 47:15 48:4,15,
19 51 :22 53:5,8, 13, 17,23 54:3,8, motion 46:15,24 47:5,12,19,20
matt 5:13,16110:15 13,20,23 55:1,14,15 56:1 57:14 50:16,24 51:4,9,12 57:17
matter 21 :6 39:12 55:1 57:19 65:17,21113:25116:8,11,17,25
motions 46:18
58:13 59:24 69:14 70:9 71 :15,23 117:5,12,21,25118:4,12,16,18,21
75:12,18 79:1111:12,19112:24 119:9,13,20120:13121:6,22 motive 30:13
113:6,13 124:11,15,20127:11,16128:18
mouth 80:19
129:2135:19140:13
matters 12:10 20:21,22 70:16
move 5:25117:16 129:16,20
106:10 meetings 13:21,2414:1115:17,21
21:848:6111:11114:12131:18 moving 64:24
Mccarthy 5:1513:10,13,15,21
14:3,8,12,1515:2,1717:218:2 memory 52:24 53:4 murdered 34:1
21 :23 22:1,523:3,10, 17,24 24:2,7,
men 80:15 Myers 81:18
13, 19,23 25:4, 14,20 26:3,9, 16,23
27:5, 12, 17 ,24 28:7' 14,20 29:6, 13, mentioned 52:23 53:1,3 120:12 mystockbuy 102:14
19,25 30:6,12,19 31:1,7,13,20 32:3 132:16143:16
34:6, 10, 16,22,2535:3,1636:4,12,
message 124:25 N
15,16 37:2,14,17 38:5,13,16 39:24
40:6,10,16,18 41:2143:8,1051:22 messages 88:19,23 89:4 91:5,11
52:20 53:14,17,19,21 54:3,8,21,25 93:23 94:4 96:13 105:5 151 :25 named 38:20 65:4
55:23 56:14 57:1,14,19,22 58:2,5, 152:19 names 48:2052:11,16,21 53:1 o
12 59:3,6,9,14,23 60:3,6,9 61 :4 54:14 61 :23 68:15 111 :4 122:2,7,9
messaging 89:19147:1
62:7 63:6,9 68:23 69:7,12 73:9,19
74:6,13 76:18 79:8 83:5,10,14,16 messed 45:5 97:6 naming 49:10
84:11 85:4, 17,2386:4,9,16 88:18, narrative 13:6
messing 63:22
22 89:3,14 90:4,23 93:13 94:6,16,
24 95:5,16 97:23 98:17 99:2 103:1, met 13:11,13,1514:1016:18 39:3 narrow 100:12,14,17
22 104:4,15,21106:18107:20,25 47:948:2161:6,7110:18111:11 Nathan 42:5,7,8 61:5 62:10,13,15,
108:4, 12, 18 109:6, 12, 15, 19,23 145:9 16 63:5,8, 15, 18 64:4,6,8 65: 1, 11
110:6116:11,25117:5,11,19 66:2,18 77:2,7,9,12,20,23 78:5
Miller 64:10 65:4 66:8
118:22120:17122:3,10125:18 80:2181:1383:22 84:13,22 85:10
126:4,13127:10,11,17128:11 millions 53:2 135:6 86:9, 12, 16 88:2,8, 15, 19,23 89:4,
129:3,6, 15, 19,25 130:3,6, 10, 13, 17' 15,19 90:15,25 91:3,11 92:2,8,15
18,21131:1,6,13,16,17,24132:7,
mind 10:3140:6,23154:22 159:13
93:16,22,2394:5,15,23 95:22,23
15,21133:2,7,11,14,18,22134:5, mine 15:5 38:20 96:2,8, 14 99:5 105:5, 13, 19,23
13,22135:5136:2,4137:5,9,11,18, 106:1,24124:25131:25142:14,23,
20,22,25139:15,19141:23142:10 minutes 51:17,19127:2141:3
159:21 24143:7144:14,23145:1,8146:2,
143:3,4147:15151:15152:7,9 12,25147:6,16,17,20150:6153:6,
153:1154:13,17155:11,15,18 misconduct 99:1 101 :1,25 15154:5,12,22155:21156:9,20
156: 1 159: 11, 15, 17
misrepresentations 29:7 34:1 o Nathan's 142:18144:22
Mccarthy's 126:19 154:13
missing 49:14146:22 nature 78:21 147:2155:2
meaning 22:9 58:12
mistake 58:13 needed 64:1 77:20 78:5 94:14
means 139: 14 120:17122:11
misunderstanding 84:1
meant 91:15

hglitigation.com
~.
EXHIBIT 1
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: nefarious .. personal

nefarious 141 :24 10, 16,21 93:5, 11, 18,2594:7,18,25
95 :11, 19,2496:4,9,15 97:25 98:7, p
negative 23:8 43:22 134:9146:8
12 99 :7,25100:2 ,9101:3,13,19
147:13
102:2, 10, 19,22 103:3, 10, 18,24 P-0-W-E-R 72:24
negatives 56:22 104:18105:3,7,15106:4,20107:1,
2,8, 12, 14 108:1,6, 13,20 109:1,8,20 p.m. 160:3
negligent 31 :7,14 110:1,9,24 111 :7,14,25113:1,8,14 paid 76:3,5,25 106:22 107:4,6,10
nervous 39:4144:17 114:15,25115:6,19,23116:13 115:7
117:8,23 118:23 119:22 120:9
Neutral 139:5 121:1,12122:20123:6,19124:17 paper 34:2
news 66:11, 13 68:24 69:8 126:13 125:3,8,9,21 126:1,7,9, 16,22 paperwork 100:4
132:23 133:3 129:13,17,23130:23131:9132:2,
11 ,18,24133:5134:7,17135:10 Pardon 57:7
newspaper 142:19 137:24138:2 139:13141 :25
Park 102:4116:17117:4
nice 42:1943:11 147:21148:12149:2151:21 152:3,
13,21 155:22 156:3,23 157:6 159:5 part 10:1817:16 20:6 70:8
night 34:1
objections 11 :1857:17 participate 98:3
nonattorney 115:21
objects 11 :20 parties 55 :16
nonresponsive 7:25 43:5 86:14
109:1 obligations 123:4 party 41:5 70 :12 71:12

notice 5:24 observations 123:3 137:11 pass 37:18

numerous 38:8109:10143:12 obtain 96:20131 :25147:19,24 Patrick 73:2
148:11149:12150:9,13155:1,20
pause 61 :1769:20110:11127:8
157:12
0 129:9131 :11135:3136:11148:18
obtained 146:25
pay 77:2 88:14 91 :18 93:22 105:6,
oath 11 :3,9 64 :20 88:17 89:25 obtaining 150:21 12, 19,22 124:25
Obama 145:1 offer 92 :8,14 93:16 94:23105:13, payments 76:22
19,25 106:1 124:25 157:3
object 7:8,22 8:11 9:8, 11 10:11, 15 pending 39:14
32:24 35:6,13 41:12,17 43:4 71 :4 offered 77:2,9,12 87 :14,19 88:8
people 16:11 17:23 22:1 O 37:5,21
74:1100:19
offering 77:7 91 :3 92 :2 95 :22 98 :5 38:8 40 :25 42 :3 44:19 45:4 63:22
objecting 33 :3 156:20 64:17 73 :4101:4102:4109:10
142:8 143:20 146:20 159:6,7 ,8
objection 5:24 7:25 8:12,1310:8, office 132:17143:7
14,2412:17,2313:7,2215:3,14 perceived 45 :16
16:1617:1518:12 20:19 21 :5,16,
Ohio 80:19
performed 113:12
17 22:8 23 :4,5, 13,20 24:4,9,15,25 one's 32 :20
25:1,7, 10,16,22,2326:5,6,12,13, peril 6:8
19,2027:1,8,9,15,20,21 28:2,3,9, opinion 32 :24 33:2 67:24 124:22
10, 16, 17,23,2429:9,10, 15, 16,21,
period 97 :9
opportunity 11 :15
2230:2,3,8,9,15, 16,22,23 31 :3,4, permission 20:16 21 :3
10,11,16,17,24,25 32:5,6 33:10,21 oral 32 :10
34:7,12,13,18,19 35:4 36:17 38:6 perplexed 19:23
order 46:16,25 47:6,12,20 50:17,
40:2,3,7,11 ,1941 :2542:144:3,10, 25 51 :5,13 57:18 97:22 person 22:14,16 37:19 42 :18
11 46:8,20 51 :24 52:1354 :4,5,17, 44:21 45 :20 96 :21 101 :8 121 :20,22
18 55:4,19,20 56:2,17,18 57 :6 original 15:10 122:17 128:9
60:1,13 62 :8,14 65:6,9,14 67 :9,10 outlined 128:7
68:19,25 69:1,15 71:21 73:12,15, person's 37:1o
21,22 74:3,8,9,16 76:20 77:4,15 overtalk 10:2 personal 19:13 22:2138:1240:16
78:1, 15 80:23 81 :20 82 :17,24 83:7, overview 121 :24 127:21 41 :21 43:12 44:9,12,14,18 45 :20
18 84:4,24 85 :5, 11, 18,24 86:5, 11, 57:2063:2108 :10125:24
14, 18 87: 16,22 88:4, 11,24 89 :6, 16
90:1,6, 14,20 91 :6,13, 19,23 92 :4,

hglitigation.com

EXHIBIT 1
Im.
· MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: personally .. protectmyid.org .

personally 22:10,20 35:23 44:23 point 18:1445:1151 :1067:12 print 34:2
99:22 108:4 130:7 76:12 77:2 126:25 127:13 136:15
prior 47:20 70:16 92:2 155:6,7
147:19157:17
persons 20:8
Prisoner 116:12,24
portion 130:7
perspective 68:4
private 34:2435:2,15, 1736:3,11
position 22:5103:15
persuade 132:8
privately 35:18 36:15
Positive 136:10
pharma 107:4
privilege 7:1612:821 :779:13,16
possessed 88:1 o
pharmacies 67:20 76:14118:11 80:9114:20140:24141 :6,14149:1
120:3,6, 11 122:5, 14 possibility 128:2
privileged 48:24 49:12
pharmacy 64:10 66:9 67:17 possibly 19:4 41 :8 52:2 67:25
pro 46:19,25 50:16 51 :9,12
119:19125:15131:18 110:18,22118:15,17,19119:16
problem 50:2 100:21
phone 22:1o 45:9 61:8,14, 15, 19 potential 52:12 69:13 76:23
65:25 66:7,20,22 133:8 104:17,22 107:24 108:9 109:4 procedure 120:22
135:8
physical 14:2 procedures 121 :9
potentially 17:4 52:22 54:14
physically 13:24 proceed 6:8 10:20 120:20
55:17 56:9,10 58:16 93:22122:15
picking 45:9 proceeding 148:18
power 41: 14 72: 18,20,22 73:2
pickle 155:4 proceedings 5:23 61 :17 69:20
Powerpoint 77:13 89:21,24 92:2,
90:23 93:13 108:9, 17 109:4 110:11
pills 75:2 9 93:9125:1 ,6130:16145:21 ,22
127:8129:9131 :11135:3136:11
pitching 116:11 Powerpoints 90:9 160:3
pizza 127:5 139:23 predicate 40:12 produce 71 :5
place 14:22 prefer 25:11 82:10 produced 153:5,14
placing 5:24 prepared 123:1 professional 73:11122:19,24
123:2
plaintiff 58:12 128:13 129:7 prescription 74:22
professionalism 123:23
plan 128:13 presence 14:2 93:9
Progen 53:5,8, 11, 13, 16, 18,21
plant 97:21 present 13:24 71 :13 110:15
57:3125:20128:11 ,14,17129:2,
plead 78:19 81:15,22 82:5,19,25 presentation 77:14 89:22,24 93:7 11 ,12130:21131 :13132:1,9,16
83:8, 12, 1984:5,9,12, 16,21,25 125:2,7130:16158:22
Program 116:12,24
85:6,12,19,25 86:6 87:9,17,23
presentations 57:14157:16,23
88:5,12,16 90:21,24 91:2,7,10,12, proper 104:14120:2
158:2,7, 10, 12, 15,20
14, 16,2492:5,11, 1793:1,3,19
prosecute 83:24 84:8, 11 85:4, 1o
94:1,8,19 95:12,2596:5,10, 16 presented 103:8, 15 133:23
157:4
97:17 98:8,13,23 99:3,8102:11,15,
presenting 132:15
18,23 103:4,25 104:2 105:9, 16,21, prosecuted 60:4 131 :8
24106:3112:3,7,11,13115:12 pretty 14:24 17: 10 119:3
prosecution 79:20 80:6 84:23
125:5,10 147:22148:8,13149:24
previous 127: 1O
150:3,5,8, 11, 14, 17,19,22,24 151 :2, Prosecutor 84:14, 18
5152:4,22155:23156:19,25157:5 previously 70:15
prospective 126:8131 :7139:20
pleading 58:14 91:17 95:10 pride 158:14
115:14116:6149:11,20156:1,8 Prospere 66:19155:6157:17,24
prided 157:15 158:14
157:7,11 protect 16:23 80:15
primarily 118:6
pleadings 20:21,25 protective 46:15,24 47:6, 12, 19
principals 128:11 132:4 50:17,25 51 :4,12 57:17
pied 92:24
plenty 63:18 Principled 138:1 o protectmyid.org. 16:24

hglitigation.com
~
EXHIBIT 1
'MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: provide .. report

provide 73:19 79:25 80:4,17 referred 10:3 67:25 68:11 112:8,
108:11 R 20 155:9

public 35:18 70:8 71:5,13106:13 referring 57:20 89:19 90:19
Rall 19:5, 17 54:22 55:24 56:15 151 :25
publicly 36:16 57:3 63:12 65:22 66:3 67:8 83:24
84:10131:2,18145:12146:17 reflect 67:4
publish 132:22
rang 61 :15 refresh 52:24 53:4
published 126:13
rattling 128:20 refusal 9:6 48:1 72:6
purchase 87:14,20,21 149:23
150:2 read 79:10 81:1,8 82:1,3,10 refuse 6:7 7:17,20,24 8:1,8,16,23
9:1, 12, 16,20,22 21 :9 46:11 47:4,8,
purpose 17:12 54:13113:11 real 36:23 63:15 18 50:15,19 62:4 70:17,21 71 :7,16,
pursue 52:22154:14156:17,22 realize 153:25 19,25 72:3,4,14 75:16 97:19
158:23 110:17,21111:1,3,9,16112:21
reason 17:17 66:6 83:15 88:8 113:3,10,20,24114:11,17116:1
put 36:21102:16125:24143:13 94:14,21 98:24,25
refused 83:17
putting 159:18 reasoning 148:2
refusing 95:9
reasons 48:23 123:24
Q regard 140:23145:16
recall 6:22,23 15:23 16:8, 1o,12, 13,
20 18:2 41:2342:2343:3,15 44:1,7 Reiner 80:19
qualified 32:25
52:20 53:7,10,12,16 77:5,6,16 relate 113:12
question 7:15,20 8:2,6,8,17,21 90:10 116:21 117:14,20 119:7
9:2,12,17,2311:19,21,2213:514:1 120:5,6122:8128:19144:12 related 72:25 73: 1 76: 17 78:23
21:10, 12 33:4 35:11 40:22 43:20 125:7 155:11
receive 130:7
46:12 47:5,9,18 48:3,7,14,23 49:7, relates 48:3 74:7 156:2
9 50:15,20 59:1 60:2562:5,18,22 received 76:16,21
66:15 68:3 70:14,18,22 71:8,17,20 relating 49:9
recite 81 :6 82:18
72:1,15,19 75:17 79:12 97:13,16, relation 158:5
20 102:6104:14108:25109:2 recognition 79:18
110:17111:2,10,17112:22113:4, relationship 47:3,15 75:14
recollect 118:25 114:14,19,23115:4,10126:20
11,21116:1117:6140:12143:2
148:24 recollection 68:16131:14 relationships 31 :21
questioning 70:10 record 6:6 9:11 15:17 19:20,22 release 20:4,6
20:1 49:17 53:20 56:22 67:4 70:8
questions 5:19 7:9 8:20 9:5,21 relevant 17:22
71:5,13 72:12 81:12 82:2,4 96:18
12:6 19:24 35:12 46:947:2,15
106:13128:24140:15,21149:15, remember 6:16,1813:1614:23
61 :24 70:20 71:12,14 72:5 73:25
17 17:20 18:19,22 22:17 40:25 41 :8
106:14110:19,23111:5,13112:10,
17140:7,9,25149:8 recording 64:9 65:3 66:8 147:1 52:4, 11, 15,25 61 :13 64:15 69:19
84:3 86:22 87:2 89:21 101: 11
Qui 19:4,10 52:3,12,22 53:24 55:17 records 131 :25 116:10,16119:7,24120:4,12122:5
56:14 57:2 67:7,14,16 68:7 76:23
recovery 130:7 125:12128:21129:1131:16,17
103:22 104:4, 16,21 106: 19 117:25
144:8,9145:15,18
118:4,8121:7,16,25125:19 Reed 66:19,20 155:5,7157:17,24
127:13,18,21128:4,10,14129:7, remembered 18:22 66:16
16,21130:1,7,11135:8154:14 refer 88:291:10105:4115:21
125:1 remind 89:25
155:2156:17,22157:4158:6,7
reference 82:11 88:18,22 89:4 repeat 12:1818:24 62:23 72:19
quick 110:12139:23
90:2,3 91:493:23 94:4 96:13 78:2 80:24 81:7,10,21 84:4 88:20
quote 91:22149:13 124:24 103:12104:19

referral 112:14115:15116:2 repeating 68:13
130:14 report 97:9

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EXHIBIT 1
~
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: reporter .. sit

reporter 10:5 11 :12 50:9 rude 37:1 self-dealing 26:24
represent 19:23,25 83:25 157:25 Rule 10:18 self-incrimination 79:13 80:1 o
representation 7:1 O 8:20 9:5 rules 10:15 73:1 O self-inflicted 67:3
73:20
run 52:6,8 56:6,8 120:17 122:11 sell 79:8 80:21 81:12,13, 18 83:17
representations 110:8 123:14134:22142:18145:13 143:24 149:23

represented 61 :25 75:8, 1o,11, 18 running 25:9 74:2 selling 82:23
82:15157:19
runs 142:25 sense 32:13154:9,10
representing 144:3 159:7 September 116:8 117:25
RXPRESS 57:3 65:12 132:1,9
represents 83:23 Ryan 5:2 6:9 36:24 38:25 39:6 served 7:1
reputation 32:11,20 33:20 81:18143:24
services 7:13
respect 18:6 79:16 91 :3 92:25 set 12:1 o 20:21 61 :21
104:3,8112:14114:23115:4140:9 s
141:6,14149:12157:8,12158:20 shady 124:2
respectfully 72:4 79:12 Sanchez 16:2 shared 12:8
respond 6:7 scared 144: 15 shares 78: 13, 16, 18,24 79:8
response 79:18 scenario 45:7 shit 39:6
responses 80:16 scheme 109:24 shop 56:14103:22
restaurant 13:1136:1937:13 schemes 118:15125:7 shopped 57:2
38:25 school 136:12,13 shopping 67:7 104:4,16
restriction 82:22 Schuster 19:5, 16,23,25 52:3 shore 139:24
54:22 55:24 56:15 57:3 63:12
retain 7:13 short 51:17
65:12,22 66:3 67:7 131:2,18 132:9
retained 7:21 8:2,8 142:20145:12146:17 shorten 22:23
reveal 139:15 Scoot 142:20 shorter 41 :11
review 11:15 scope 114:14 shoulder 36:21
revisit 140:13 Scott 19:5, 16 show 6:6 49:13 57:13158:13
Reynolds 5:2 6:9,10 39:1 70:1 screwed 97:6 143:1 showed 54:7 66:22 67:23 118:3
Richard 73:2 search 66:23 158:17

rights 114:2,6 searching 135:8 sic 8:12 79:25
Rimlawi 116:17 117:11 118:15,25 SEC 63:24 67:24 68:9, 12 83:24 side-bar 41:13,17100:20
119:7,11 84:8 142: 18 144:20,21,25 155:8 signature 47:21
ripped 53:2 secondary 38:15 signed 46:25 58:14
risk 6:8 secondhand 36:14 42:14 44:15, similar 21:13
24 45:22 142:3, 11
Rob 38:21 39:4, 10, 11, 13, 15,20
simply 79:18
Rolfe 76:1,5 77:21 78:6 85:3,9,15, secured 79: 14
sir 5:66:27:118:722:1341:19
22 86:3 88:1,992:14,19 93:10 securities 69:23 70:23 47:17 66:6 83:4,13,15 84:13,17,20
94:14,22 105:25106:5,9,15115:4
Security 132:8 85:14,15 87:25 88:7,17 92:13 93:8
132:9141:17157:2
94:13 98:15102:8110:16116:20
rolling 42:20 Segedy 5:13,16110:15
sit 15:2218:143:15,2544:6 53:7,
Ronald 52:3 segments 132:23 12100:16124:14128:21129:1

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EXHIBIT 1
~-
'MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
. Index: sitting .. talked

sitting 36:20 148:23 start 18:10 62:21100:11,13 substance 48:6, 19
situation 144:18 started 12:414:2418:11116:12 substantive 118:21,24119:18
120:14123:8
slanderous 126: 13 state 6:2 11 :8 64:7 69:4 79: 15,22
96:18 sudden 63:21
smart 45:14 136:4
statement 9:3, 14 15:19 20 :4 23:8, sue 130:21131:2
smell 12:15,22
1131:2332:10,1941:2451:14
suggest 23:24 24:7 26:3 28:6,13,
Smith 75:7,11,17,24 76:3 83:23 69:5 79:23 134:19 146:10, 13
20 29:6 30:12 31:1354:9 57:1
84:885:3,9,16,22 86:3 88:1 ,9
statements 21 :22 34:6 85:16 69:6, 11 73:9,1774:5,1289:2,13
92:14,20 93:9 94:14,22 105:22
110:7 134:5, 13 100:25101:17106:17110:6
114:23141 :7,14157 :3
126:12131 :6132 :7134:22
States 13:18 79:25 80:16103:9,17
so-called 154:23
suggestion 10:3
stay 123:23
social 17:5
suggests 49:19
staying 5:23
sold 78:23
suited 140:11
stays 6:1135:17
solely 133:10
sum 48:6,19
Stevens 99:6
solicited 78 :23 129:6
supervised 20 :3,6
stick 140:18
somebody's 32:11
supplied 69:12
stipulate 41:16 82 :12
sort 97:23 98:4 106:18
supply 79:19 80:4
stock 78:18,2480 :21 81:13,18
source 106:23112:14115:15
82 :23103:1118:14 support 22 :5103 :14
116:2
stocks 83:5,6, 11, 17 supported 20:24
sources 38 :15
stopping 126:25 supporting 130:11
Southwest 52:17,19
stories 42:4 supposed 45 :19
space 101 :2,18102:1107:7,17
story 41:1134 :23145:13 supposedly 45:21 153:7 157:22
speak 61 :12
strange 37:9 46:4 Surely 51 :18
speaker's 80:19
strategize 129:20 surreptitiously 157:4
speaking 48:9 99:1 118:25
street 154:5 surrounding 9:21
special 20:1421:3
strictest 27:6 133:25 suspend 160:1
specific 99 :15
strike 5:25 6:3 8:1714:19 23:24 sustain 41 :13
specifically 37:16
26 :1 29:2,4 39:22 41 :1958:8,10
sweet 135:16
specifics 55:23 119:4 121 :17 60:8,24 62 :11 63:1 69:4 71 :18
73 :6,18 83:3,14,20 87 :12 89:11 sworn 5:3 46:23 51 :11 88:17,21
spent 116:23 117:3 90 :25 91 :1593:7,15 98 :24 105:12
spoke 98:24117:11,19 107:4 110:3 111 :2 115:2 116:9
119:25 129:5 137:9,19 149:25
T
spoken 22 :10 157:13
spread 83 :10 taking 74:18,21 78:22 79:3 81 :12
strikes 119:1 87:13 98:20,22104:7112 :5115 :3,
spurred 133:7 struck 146:18 8 116:3,5 156:6
standard 120:22 stuff 17:11 58:17 60:16 97:3 137:2 talk 17:23 38:25 39:13, 14 50 :9, 11
142:2,7158:17 52:17 70 :16 78:20 95:9 97:7 98 :10
standards 20 :7
99:1 122:14130:13149:3,5159 :24
standing 37 :7 38:2 subject 111 :12,18112:24113:6,
13 talked 17:418:2,10,1319:4 22 :17
stands 59:22 101: 11 107:20 111 :5 112: 19 113:6,
subpoena 7:1136 :15 7114:13117 :15119:4,11120:6
stapling 159:18

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EXHIBIT 1
~-
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: talking .. utmost

121:21122:9140:12 thinking 128:3 45:4,7 51 :14 53:21,22 58:2,5,6
59:24,25 63:17 66:13 69:8,9,10,14,
talking 22:12,2165:286:22 93:1,4 thirdhand 45:4
17 77:18 80:7,20 83:4,9,13,15
96:25101:6102:5111:19116:16,
Thirty-three 33:8 84:13,17,20,22 85:2,8,14,15,21
24117:4119:2,7144:1145:17
86:2 87:25 88:789:5,15, 17 92:13
146:11148:3151:11,16,20,24 thought 33:15 37:1 41:11 43:10
93:8, 1294:3,10, 13, 17 101 :2
152:17,18,19153:3,23154:8155:9 54:14119:1,3153:4154:8155:4
102:25133:12,16146:13
158:3,25
threatened 84:13,22 85:3,9
Trustworthy 138:22
tall 120:24
throw 69:18 158:23
truth 11 :5,6 32:21
Tam 19:4,10 52:3 55:17 56:14,15
Tillery 71:3,9,11 91 :21 99:4
67:7,14,17 68:7103:22104:16,21 Truthful 80:16
106:19118:8121:16125:19 time 35:11, 13 37:25 39:2 43:24
turn 153:16159:10
127:13, 18,21 128:4, 10, 14 129:7, 50:10,12 51:10 55:22 57:10 61:11
16,21 130:1,8, 11 135:9 154:14 62:24 63:13 64:21 67:12 102:3 type 17:1129:1376:22 77:13
155:2 156:18,22157:4158:6,7 107:19116:24117:3127:14135:7 151 :3
136:16160:2
Tam's 121 :25
Tams 52:12,22 53:24 57:2 76:23
timeline 141 :3 u
104:4 117:25 118:4 121 :7 times 6:15, 17,21,24 13:20 14:2,4
61 :6,9 143:12 159:23 U.S. 79:14132:8,17
tape 64:9 99:4
today 5:10,17 74:19,25 75:1,3 UDF 83:25
Taylor 135:19,20
111:13,19112:25113:7,13114:3,6 Unbiased 139:1
telephone 61: 1o 159:1
understand 10:6,2111:2,8,11,14,
television 132:23 told 20:19 22:15,17 36:19 38:19 2212:1213:419:23 21:15 37:12
39:21 41 :1 42:8 44:19 56:5,8 59:16 41:1069:23 78:3 95:2 108:23
telling 5:19 42:4,14 44:7 99:5
62:13, 15 63:6,21,22 64:2,3,4 65:2 117:25 118:4 152:1 153:10, 17,21,
144:8145:4147:24148:19151:14
66:18 67:24 83:4,13 86:12 93:16 23154:15,16,19
154:22
97:21 98:16,21103:21104:3,15,20
ten 70:4141:3 120:17122:10123:13127:24 understanding 21 :19,21 32:9,22
131:21135:4142:24144:14,25 33:2,5 49:19 98:25146:5,9,10,16
terms 52:12 68:13,16113:4123:2 151:10,13153:6154:25
145:10147:4,5157:17158:11,18
124:19141:3
total 16:11 understood 39:11 155:10
testified 5:3 18:8 107:23 149: 15
touch 12:15,22 unethical 22:6 23:17 40:10,17,18
testify 12:8,9 20:20 21 :6,8 47:24 41 :22,24 44:8 55:2 97:23 124:22
49:370:2,9,13 71:10 75:14 78:25 touched 101: 11
113:17115:9,11,17 United 13:18 79:24 80:16103:9,17
touching 159:19
testimony 11 :11 46:24 51 :11 unlawful 23:10101:1
trade 144:23 145:11
74:1980:1,488:17,21113:13 unmask 139:19
127:10 traded 78: 13, 16
Unprejudiced 139:3
Texas 73:1 O 79:15 trading 82:22
unquote 149:13
text 84:3 88:2, 19,23 89:4, 19 91 :4, train 150:9
10 93:23 94:4 96:13105:5124:24 update 136:18,21
treaties 77:14
147:1 151 :25152:19 upfront 133:19
treatise 92:2
texted 83:22 Upright 138:18
Trilogy 64:10, 13, 1465:4,18 66:8
thing 12:4 37:8 39:14 42:20,21 urged 134:22
67:17,19125:13,16
123:17134:2142:13,14144:13
145:7 trouble 39:7 68:5,9 98:4120:25 utmost 26:10 27:18

things 18:14 39:18 51:2270:2,7 true 6:11 9:3,13,2315:1916:2,15
71:22102:4144:8145:4147:1 17:618:1119:1720:423:3,8,11
31 :22 33:18 36:4,5 43:2,8 44:16

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~
EXHIBIT 1
MCCARTHY: RYAN REYNOLDS
Index: vendetta .. you-all

worked 39:1 o 75:23 76:1 118:1,5
v 121 :16 128:8 132:22
works 5:17,19118:8
vendetta 83:16
world 33:7100:10
versus 13:6 22:17
worried 63:15 67:23155:8
violated 73:10 74:6
worry 37:5,6,20

w Worth 135:5
Wow 33:13
waive 149:8
writing 84:3
waiving 5:24
written 32:1 O
walked 36:19 37:6,7,21 38:2
wrong 43:19 57:21 98:17100:7
wanted 39:13,14,17 63:14 66:20 124:15,21 143:3 145:3,5
83:10,17,25 97:21120:23127:12
wrongdoer 80:17
144:19149:12 156:21159:8
wrongdoing 54:2,22 63:3 101 :1
warrant 66:23 133:8
142:10
Wednesday 7:2
wrongful 23:3 32:4 54:10 55:3,16,
weekend 84:2 24 95:16141:24152:11
weird 63:19 wrote 46:22,24
weirdest 39:18
well-being 125:24
x
whatsoever 36:7 55:9 122:16 Xpress 57:3131:18
155:12159:13
When's 107:19 y
White 18:11,16
y'all 54:15
whomever 71:6,13 142:20 143:8
154:4 year 13:15 82:16
wide 100:10 years 13:12 33:7,8 68:17,18 70:5
78:14107:22112:25
willful 120: 13
yes-or-no 13:5
willfully 32:3
you-all 119:6
wire 63:14 69:24 70:22
wired 42:9 64:6,9 65:2,12 142:14
143:7
wires 63:17,18
withdrawing 140:23
witnessed 101 :10
wolf 159:23
word 11:12 32:9,18
words 89:1
work 5:12 53:24 113:12 121 :25

hglitigation.com
EXHIBIT 1
~
 ' .,

STATE OF TEXAS }
COUNTY OF C Ll..AS
I, FE ICIA r·-.E, Cler.· cf .he DlBtrlct of D llas County,
T::- . ~>. ··:.~.1 1: rt !:,7 ·; ~ . v dia~ 1:·, \1~ ~~, 1" fj·e(l this Instrument 1
''.} •,,r_ rt'.\. co1~Y o1 tu ··' origb 3 appears on
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