dissenting.
Under the circumstances of this case I cannot find that Wabasha knowingly and *160intelligently waived his “right to counsel.” The state court advised him that he was entitled to have counsel represent him at all stages of the proceedings at no cost to him. The court “strongly encouraged” him to get counsel because of the seriousness of the offense involved and the possibility of imprisonment for up to 20 years. The following colloquy then took place:
THE COURT: I’ve advised you previously of your right to have an attorney here to represent you; is that correct?
MR. WABASHA: Yes.
THE COURT: And I have recommended to you that you not proceed without the services of an attorney, have I not?
MR. WABASHA: Yes.
THE COURT: And you’ve indicated to this Court you do not desire the services of an attorney?
MR. WABASHA: No.
THE COURT: And I have apprised you that if you did not have enough money to retain an attorney this Court would provide an attorney for you at no cost to you?
MR. WABASHA: Yes.
THE COURT: Do you know and understand this?
MR. WABASHA: Yes.
THE COURT: Is it still your desire to proceed?
MR. WABASHA: Yes.
Transcript of arraignment at 4-5.
The law requires much more for an effective waiver of counsel. Merely giving lip service by saying yes or no to stereotyped questions is not sufficient. See Carnley v. Cochran, 369 U.S. 506, 516, 82 S.Ct. 884, 890, 8 L.Ed.2d 70 (1962); Von Moltke v. Gillies, 332 U.S. 708, 722, 68 S.Ct. 316, 322, 92 L.Ed. 309 (1948); Johnson v. Zerbst, 304 U.S. 458, 464, 58 S.Ct. 1019, 1023, 82 L.Ed. 1461 (1938). Before waiver of counsel should be approved there must be a penetrating and comprehensive discussion between the court and the accused. In the Von Moltke case Justice Black wrote for a plurality of the Court:
To be valid such waiver' must be made with an apprehension of the nature of the charges, the statutory offenses included within them, the range of allowable punishments thereunder, possible defenses to the charges and circumstances in mitigation thereof, and all other facts essential to a broad understanding of the whole matter. A judge can make certain that an accused’s professed waiver of counsel is understandingly and wisely made only from a penetrating and comprehensive examination of all the circumstances under which such a plea is tendered.
332 U.S. at 724, 68 S.Ct. at 323.
Although no court has required Justice Black’s precise litany of questions, other courts have required some judicial inquiry to ascertain that the defendant’s waiver is wisely made. Cf. United States v. Welty, 674 F.2d 185, 187-88 (3d Cir.1982) (where on eve of trial defendant seeks new counsel or to proceed pro se, the district court has the “responsibility of ensuring that any decision by the defendant to represent himself is intelligently and competently made .... Perfunctory questioning is not sufficient.”); United States v. King, 582 F.2d 888, 889-90 (4th Cir.1978) (district judge’s explanation of the dangers of self-representation informed defendant of considerations necessary for an intelligent waiver and defendant’s responses indicated he made his choice
“with his eyes open.”); Chapman v. United States, 553 F.2d 886, 892 (5th Cir.1977) (where defendant clearly asserts the right to defend pro se, “a trial judge should engage in a dialogue with such a defendant, explaining to him the consequences of defending pro se.”). The Fourth Circuit recently observed “[mjerely asking a defendant if he wants an attorney is inadequate to inform the defendant of his right to counsel.” United States v. Johnson, 659 F.2d 415, 417 (4th Cir.1981). The American Bar Association Standards Relating to Providing Defense Services (Approved Draft 1968) summarizes these principles in section 7.2:
The accused’s failure to request counsel or his announced intention to plead guilty should not of itself be construed to consti*161tute a waiver. An accused should not be deemed to have waived the assistance of counsel until the entire process of offering counsel has been completed and a thorough inquiry into the accused’s comprehension of that offer and his capacity to make the choice intelligently and understandingly has been made. No waiver should be found to have been made where it appears that the accused is unable to make an intelligent and understanding choice because of his mental condition, age, education, experience, the nature or complexity of the case, or other factors.
See id. commentary at 68.1
For an accused to make an intelligent waiver a trial judge must be assured that a defendant has a broad understanding of what an attorney might do for him. The specific nature of the charge must be spelled out, not in conclusory terms, but so that the accused can fully understand what is confronting him. Thereafter, a trial judge should determine if the accused fully appreciates any possible defenses to the charge and whether mitigating circumstances may exist that a lawyer might present on his behalf. The accused should be informed and should demonstrate a complete understanding of possible defenses that might exist under the circumstances. If there are technical difficulties in the questions raised beyond the capacity of the accused to understand them the trial court should be reluctant to accept the waiver. Cf. Cash v. Culver, 358 U.S. 633, 636-37, 79 S.Ct. 432, 435, 3 L.Ed.2d 557 (1959) (several factors render criminal proceedings without counsel so apt to result in injustice as to be fundamentally unfair); Moore v. Michigan, 355 U.S. 155, 161-62, 78 S.Ct. 191, 195, 2 L.Ed.2d 167 (1957) (a finding of waiver is not lightly made).
A legal waiver of counsel must demonstrate “an intentional relinquishment or abandonment of a known right or privilege.” Such a waiver must be “intelligent.” Johnson v. Zerbst, 304 U.S. at 464, 58 S.Ct. at 1023 (emphasis added); see also Edwards v. Arizona, 451 U.S. 477, 482, 101 S.Ct. 1880, 1883, 68 L.Ed.2d 378 (1981); McKee v. Harris, 649 F.2d 927, 930 (2d Cir.1981), cert. denied, 456 U.S. 917, 102 S.Ct. 1773, 72 L.Ed.2d 177 (1982); cf. Tollett v. United States, 444 F.2d 622, 624 (8th Cir.1971) (“The law is clear that the sixth amendment guarantee of the right to counsel in a federal criminal trial can only be waived after a careful explanation of the defendant’s rights by the court and an intelligent exercise of the choice by the defendant.”).
The law abhors forfeiture. Here the court condones forfeiture of one’s liberty without legal representation based upon a formalistic inquiry by the state court and an abbreviated record. I cannot subscribe to it. Conscientious state and federal trial judges should require much, much more before accepting a waiver of counsel in criminal cases.
. Section 7.2 suggests that an inquiry into the defendant’s background, age, education, mental condition, and experience is appropriate. Wabasha, a Native American, was 20 years old at the time of arraignment and had a seventh or eighth grade education. He had a reading level of third or fourth grade.