dissenting:
“Do not take the express bus from New York City to Buffalo!” This little Attorney General’s warning should be posted at the New York City Port Authority building for those who prefer not to be interrogated by DEA agents or local deputy sheriffs in Erie County as to their identification, place of employment, or reason for coming to Buffalo, or to be asked whether their luggage can be searched to see if they are carrying narcotics.
Reginald Glover made the mistake of taking that bus and doing four other very suspicious things:
First, he did not check his small Samsonite-type bag and shoulder-type bag in the *1016luggage compartment underneath the bus but, rather, presumably kept them in the overhead rack or on his seat and — surprisingly — carried them off the bus.
Second, he was sweating (on the 16th of May, 1990) and while we do not know how he was clothed, we do know that he had just finished an eight-hour bus trip.
Third, and this was a big mistake, while most if not all of the other passengers getting off the express bus walked through Gate 4 into the Buffalo Bus Terminal, Glover walked through Gate 5, all of twenty feet away; we do not know the dimensions of the doors at Gate 4 or the exact number of people on the bus (about 40), but it was, at least to the investigating agent, suspicious or “unusual” that Glover went through the different set of doors.
Finally, of course, he was, to the same investigator, continually looking around, walking in an almost exaggeratedly slow manner, and jerking his head around to look back over his shoulder as he came into the bus terminal.
It was these four things that caused the investigative agent, Paul Terranova, to stop Glover and to start asking him questions about his identification and the like, as well as the question whether he would agree to a search of his baggage. To that question Glover, I may say correctly, replied, “You don’t have probable cause.” I do not think that Investigator Terranova even had reasonable suspicion that Glover was engaged in criminal activity so as to justify the brief detention known as a “Terry-stop” after the progenitor case, Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968), a reasonable suspicion which I thought Reid v. Georgia, 448 U.S. 438, 440-41, 100 S.Ct. 2752, 2754, 65 L.Ed.2d 890 (1980) (per curiam), coupled with our own U.S. v. Buenaventura-Ariza, 615 F.2d 29, 37 (2d Cir.1980), had fairly clearly established was a prerequisite to such a stop.
I say this for the following reasons:
Sheriff’s Investigator Terranova — I think that is technically his title, though as an investigator for the Erie County Sheriff’s department he had been assigned to the DEA Task Force in Buffalo for about a year and a half to work the “transportation facilities” of Buffalo — was no Agent Whit-more of past Second Circuit fame.1 Investigator Terranova had worked only for a year and a half on the transportation detail of the Buffalo Task Force, with no indication of outside training or other expertise. He had stopped over 250 people at the bus terminal and had participated in the arrests of several people — five or six, or maybe more — at least some of whom had successfully argued motions to suppress. I do not think that we can give, and I do not understand Judge Altimari to give, any special or extra weight to Investigator Terranova or his observations based upon his somewhat limited expertise and experience.
I also note preliminarily that the Buffalo Bus Terminal, known as the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority (NFTA) Terminal, is not the same as an airport terminal where one’s expectations of privacy would be diminished, as Justice Blackmun suggested, by the presence of “extensive antihighjacking surveillance and equipment.” Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S. 491, 515, 103 S.Ct. 1319, 1333, 75 L.Ed.2d 229 (1983) (Blackmun, J., dissenting), quoted in Florida v. Rodriguez, 469 U.S. 1, 6, 105 S.Ct. 308, 311, 83 L.Ed.2d 165 (1984) (per curiam). It is just a bus terminal and, unless there is to be some special rule for lowering Fourth Amendment expectations in transportation facilities in general (a special rule I have never heard of), is to be treated, I suppose, like a hotel lobby, an art *1017museum, an indoor shopping mall, or any other place where crowds of people congregate. Nor does the fact that these events took place in Buffalo, New York, have any special significance even though I note the comments in Judge Pratt’s dissent in United States v. Hooper, 935 F.2d 484, 499 (2d Cir.), cert. denied, — U.S.-, 112 S.Ct. 663, 116 L.Ed.2d 754 (1991), describing an encounter at the Buffalo airport as “yet another example of the aggressive tactics recently employed by federal law enforcement officials in the Buffalo area, which are well chronicled in our cases.” Id. at 500 (citing cases).
So what of the “express bus” coming from a “source city”? As cases too numerous to cite have pointed out, “source cities,” as testified to by law enforcement officers, include virtually every city in the United States of any size. Any Lexis or Westlaw search would reveal that “source cities” include every city with a population of over one million, most cities with over 500,000, and numerous cities with only over 100,000 inhabitants. Thus, millions of people arrive at various points of destination from source cities, so-called, yet they can hardly be subjected to virtually random seizures from the fact of their departure therefrom. See Reid, 448 U.S. at 441, 100 S.Ct. at 2754. “Source city” is essentially a meaningless term. The overnight express bus from New York City, arriving in Buffalo in the early morning, apparently is suspect purely and simply because a Drug Task Force operates regularly in transportation facilities, including the NFTA bus terminal at Buffalo.
Investigator Terranova testified that his suspicions were aroused in part because Glover had not checked his luggage, as according to him most people do on the express bus, but had apparently kept it in the overhead rack or on his seat, thus enabling him to walk off the bus with it. Indeed, this luggage testimony was relied upon by the district court as one of the eleven critical facts bolstering its decision that the officers had reasonable suspicion that the defendant was carrying contraband inside his bags when, inside the NFTA office, the officers told him that they were going to hold his bags until a narcotics detection dog arrived.2
What’s more, the district court found that Glover’s unchecked luggage was “large,” a fact which Judge Altimari correctly points out was clearly erroneous since the suitcase was “small,” and his shoulder bag was presumably just that as well. True, Judge Altimari says that finding by the district court was a harmless error. But it is absurd, at least to anyone who has ever traveled on a bus, or an airplane for that matter, to suggest that there is something suspicious about not checking one’s luggage in the under-bus compartment where it can be damaged or otherwise batted about; this is true if the luggage is small but also true with larger luggage, especially if it is soft or its contents are fragile.
How about Glover’s walking through Gate 5 rather than Gate 4? To Investigator Terranova this was significant, though how many people would simply prefer to walk an extra 20 feet to avoid crowding with 40 other people between a single set of doors, all with luggage, must remain an unknown. Parenthetically, frequent or occasional commuters taking one of the crowded Metro-North trains arriving at Grand Central Station in New York would note that many people leave the train platform by an alternate gate rather than the gate of arrival. Of course, the Buffalo Bus Terminal might be different if it has wider doors. However, Border Patrol Agent William Spencer, who on the date in question was working the Buffalo bus ter*1018minal with Investigator Terranova, testified that Glover’s use of a different gate was not in itself of concern to him. Nor do I see how it could be or could be reasonably.
What then of Glover’s sweating, nervousness, glances around the terminal, exaggeratedly slow walk, and jerky movements? Both Terranova and Spencer thought this was “unusual”; as Agent Spencer testified, Glover was “more than modestly curious about his surroundings,” whatever that means. It was as Glover was walking in the terminal in this manner that Investigator Terranova came up to Glover, identified himself, and started asking Glover a few questions. I would take it that, however proper it may have been for the agent to have asked Glover if he would mind answering a few questions at that point, the walking or nervousness was still insufficient to permit a finding that the agents then reasonably suspected Glover of criminal activity, Buenaventura-Ariza, 615 F.2d at 36, even though the initial interrogation may have been the sort of consensual encounter that the Supreme Court now holds implicates no Fourth Amendment considerations. See Florida v. Rodriguez, 469 U.S. at 5-6, 105 S.Ct. at 310-11.
Next, consider Glover’s conduct and the identification he produced during the initial interrogation by Investigator Terranova that occurred prior to the moment when Terranova, backed up by Spencer, told Glover to accompany them to the NFTA office. The officers, the district court, and Judge Altimari rely on various aspects of this encounter in finding reasonable suspicion to conclude that Glover’s baggage contained narcotics. The evidence from this encounter, none of which I find particularly suspicious, was as follows.
First and foremost, once again, Glover was nervous, visibly sweating, and shaking during this interrogation. I, for one, do not find that surprising when upon arrival at a bus terminal one is approached by a law enforcement officer who identifies himself as such and shows his DEA credentials. In fact, I suppose most people who are stopped by police officers are apt to be nervous and visibly so.
The second thing that Glover did which at least further aroused Terranova’s suspicions, even if it were not relied upon either by the district court or Judge Altimari, was that when asked whether he had any identification, Glover replied affirmatively, reached down into the sock of his left leg, and retrieved a wallet from which he produced a handwritten employment identification card and a Social Security form. Ter-ranova had never before seen anyone carry his wallet in his sock. Probably the judges do not rely on this behavior because in this day and age of insecurity people often try to conceal where they keep their money or other papers of value. I am surprised that Terranova found it significant.
Third, the employment identification card was handwritten with no photo attached to it, though it had Glover’s name and address written on it and though, when they asked his name, Glover truthfully told it. Is the fact that it had no photo attached to it odd? I doubt it. The Social Security form was a photocopy, and while it had Glover’s name it showed a different address from the employment card, and the Social Security number itself was indistinct or, in Terrano-va’s word, “obliterated.”
For Investigator Terranova, these items of identification did not add up; he testified that Glover did not have “any what I considered proper credentials.” Again, neither the district court nor Judge Altimari rely on this lack of “proper” credentials. How many people have a different address on their employment identification card (if they have such) than on their Social Security card?
Finally, Terranova, the district court, and Judge Altimari rely on another aspect of the initial questioning: Glover’s refusals to allow Terranova to confirm Glover’s responses. Terranova asked Glover the nature of his visit to the Buffalo area and Glover said he was there to visit his aunt. Terranova, in light of the “improper” credentials, then asked Glover if he could call the aunt to confirm his identification, and Glover replied that he could not because his *1019visit was a surprise. Next, Terranova asked if he could call the place of employment to verify that Glover worked there, his name, and that he was on vacation to visit his aunt. Glover refused, however, explaining that his employer would show him as listed in the sick-book instead of on vacation. I find neither of these replies to what might seem to anyone as snooping interrogation particularly surprising or suspicious, even when coupled with the nervousness and all the other conduct referred to above.
This initial interrogation ended when Ter-ranova asked Glover to come back to the NFTA office and, according to Terranova, Glover said “O.K.” At this point, both Judge Altimari and I agree that Glover was seized,3 particularly because Terranova was holding onto Glover’s credentials and because Border Patrol Agent Spencer was by Terranova’s side, though standing back and remaining silent during the conversation. It is precisely at this moment that we must make the ultimate determination under the Supreme Court case law whether the officers had “articulable suspicion that a person has committed or is about to commit a crime.” Florida v. Rodriguez, 469 U.S. at 5, 105 S.Ct. at 310 (quoting Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S. at 498, 103 S.Ct. at 1324 (opinion of White, J.)). I assume that it still holds true that “articulable suspicion” includes the requirement that the authorities must “possess specific and articulable facts warranting a reasonable belief that a traveler’s luggage contains narcotics,” United States v. Place, 462 U.S. 696, 703, 103 S.Ct. 2637, 2642, 77 L.Ed.2d 110 (1983), where the luggage as well as the person is seized. For the reasons previously stated, I do not think the officers here possessed such facts, nor had such a reasonable belief.
Nothing in Florida v. Bostick, — U.S. -, 111 S.Ct. 2382, 115 L.Ed.2d 389 (1991) or any of the other recent Supreme Court cases is to the contrary. Bostick held simply that there was not a “seizure” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment when officers boarded a bus and, without articulable suspicion, questioned a passenger and requested his consent to search his baggage for drugs, advising him of his right to refuse, without threatening him with a gun. Indeed, Bostick restates the proposition from the plurality opinion in Royer, 460 U.S. at 498, 103 S.Ct. at 1324, and INS v. Delgado, 466 U.S. 210, 216-17, 104 S.Ct. 1758, 1762-63, 80 L.Ed.2d 247 (1984), that “a refusal to cooperate, without more, does not furnish the minimal level of objective justification needed for a detention or seizure.”4 111 S.Ct. at 2387. Therefore, Glover’s refusal to permit Ter-ranova to search his luggage cannot weigh against him. Nor does Michigan v. Chesternut, 486 U.S. 567, 108 S.Ct. 1975, 100 L.Ed.2d 565 (1988), do anything more than support the proposition that here Glover was seized when the officers asked him to go to the NFTA office, since its test that a seizure occurs when a reasonable person would believe that he or she is not “free to leave,” applies in the case of a person who, like Glover, is walking down the street or through an airport lobby or bus terminal when he is stopped and interrogated by officers, even as qualified in the on-the-bus situation set forth in Bostick, 111 S.Ct. at 2387-88.
I therefore dissent. I do so on the basis of the facts of the case, the law as we have it from the Supreme Court and our own court, but also for a deeper reason. I would hate to see the day when people can randomly be stopped in bus terminals, department stores, office buildings or shop*1020ping malls by individuals holding temporary power in the government and asked, in the name of voluntary cooperation with law enforcement, for identification, travel papers, “credentials,” to use Terranova’s words, and on the basis of inability properly to satisfy the officer’s standards — whatever they are — to be seized and held until a warrant can be obtained, a sniffing dog can be brought up, or “consent” is finally given. In short, I share the views of both the Florida court as quoted in the dissent of Justices Marshall, Blackmun and Stevens in Bostick, 111 S.Ct. at 2391, and Judge Pratt as stated in his dissent in Hooper, 935 F.2d at 499-500. One would hope that the war on drugs does not make for a police state.
. Drug Enforcement Administration Agent Gerard Whitmore figured in a number of Second Circuit cases involving airport stops over the years. See, e.g., United States v. Vasquez-Santiago, 602 F.2d 1069, 1072 n. 3 (2d Cir.1979), cert. denied, 447 U.S. 911, 100 S.Ct. 2998, 64 L.Ed.2d 861 (1980), and United States v. Price, 599 F.2d 494, 501 n. 8 (2d Cir.1979), detailing some of his cases. His legendary training and experience probably well justified the extra weight we give to the powers of observation of an officer with superior training and experience. See United States v. Oates, 560 F.2d 45, 61 (2d Cir.1977). But see Buenaventura-Ariza, 615 F.2d at 36 (appellants’ arrival from a source city and nervous demeanor were "wholly insufficient" to enable Agent Whitmore to reasonably suspect that they were involved in drug trafficking).
. As I read Judge Altimari’s opinion, it holds that the seizure of Glover occurred at an earlier time — when the officers asked Glover to go to the NFTA office — than held by the district court. Judge Altimari is plainly correct on this. Two more of the district court’s eleven critical “facts” disappear with that ruling — (1) the “false information” (by one day!) given to the officers by Glover about his birthdate and about his criminal record, and (2) the criminal record and use of "aliases” (in fact, one alias) — since these did not arise until after the officers took Glover to the NFTA office. Source city, express bus, "large, unchecked baggage,” and different gate equals four more facts that to my mind are of no significance whatsoever.
. We are of course bound by Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S. 491, 501-06, 103 S.Ct. 1319, 1326-29, 75 L.Ed.2d 229 (1983), in which the Court stated at 501, 103 S.Ct. at 1326:
Asking for and examining Royer's ticket and his driver’s license were no doubt permissible in themselves, but when the officers identified themselves as narcotics agents, told Royer that he was suspected of transporting narcotics, and asked him to accompany them to the police room, while retaining his ticket and driver’s license and without indicating in any way that he was free to depart, Royer was effectively seized for the purposes of the Fourth Amendment.
. We will need help if it ever does, the Star Chamber and the Inquisition to the contrary notwithstanding.