dissenting. The community fight in Thomas County between opposing factions was and is regrettable. The present action brought by the attorney general to recover so-called civil penalties for alleged knowing violations of the open meetings law against former public officials is but another chapter in that local community fight. This court is taking no sides in this bitter controversy other than to examine the provisions of the open meetings law and apply those provisions to the facts as they come to us in a printed record. I do not agree that this record of proceedings justifies the conclusion of the majority that these defendants “sought to frustrate the construction of the non-profit hospital by preparing a proposal for remodeling the *539existing county hospital.” The words “sought to frustrate” attribute some improper motive to the decisions of these defendants while acting as public officials.
All of us agree that elected officials cannot be permitted to conduct governmental affairs behind closed doors. That did not occur under the facts appearing in the record of this case. All of us agree that public officials do have a duty to inform their constituents and not to hide from them. Here again the evidence in this record established no secret meetings and no one testified to having been excluded from any meeting.
The penalties for the crimes of which these public officials were convicted were assessed under the open meetings law. They were imposed against these former members of two separate public bodies — the Board of County Commissioners and the Board of County Hospital Trustees.
The county clerk, Rosalie Seemann, testified it was her duty to notify the members of the Board of County Commissioners and the members of the public concerning the time, place and purpose of meetings. She further testified that she was never advised not to give notice of any meeting.
Edna Hansen testified she was the administrative and recording secretary for the Board of Trustees of the hospital. It was her practice to give notice of meetings of the Board of Trustees by notifying the newspaper, The Colby Free Press, and the local radio station, KXXX, when she was advised of a meeting by the chairman. She further testified that she had received some 42 letters requesting personal notice of meetings of the board, and because of the time and expense involved in giving personal notice the board adopted a practice to respond personally only when self-addressed and stamped envelopes were provided. The 42 letter-requests were not received by her until after the November 3, 1979, meeting.
It was stipulated that no notices were given of the meetings which formed the bases for the penalties in this case. I do not believe these gatherings were meetings required to be open with advance public notice as contemplated by the open meetings law. Neither do I believe that in these meetings the affairs of these bodies were conducted and business transacted as contemplated by K.S.A. 1981 Supp. 75-4318.
The first meeting was hurriedly called at the request of a Mr. *540Shaver from Salina who had previously been consulted in- regard to a possible energy audit. He contacted Mr. Upchurch of the Board of Trustees. Upchurch in turn passed the word around that Architect Shaver wanted to talk the next day to some of the county commissioners and some members of the Board of Trustees at the hospital building to gather information for energy application forms. The members of both boards, who were notified and could attend, met in the Thomas County Hospital. The building and plant were surveyed and Mr. Shaver obtained information to fill out the forms. No final decision for hiring of Shaver to file the application was agreed on until a later meeting of the Board of County Commissioners held on November 7, 1979, after notice was given to the public by the county clerk.
The second and third so-called meetings were held by members of the Board of Trustees of the Thomas County Hospital in the Northwest Kansas Medical Center at Goodland, Kansas. The public officers went to Goodland to interview a man for the position of administrator of the Thomas County Hospital. No one was hired, either then or later.
In all three of these meetings no binding action was taken, the meetings occurred in public buildings, and I can find nothing in the record to indicate a single person was turned away from the door.
The penalty provision of the Kansas Open Meetings Act reads as follows:
“(a) Any member of a body or agency subject to this act who knowingly violates any of the provisions of this act or who intentionally fails to furnish information as required by subsection (b) of K.S.A. 75-4318 shall be liable for the payment of a civil penalty in an action brought by the attorney general or county or district attorney, in a sum set by the court of not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500) for each violation. In addition, any binding action which is taken at a meeting not in substantial compliance with the provisions of this act shall be voidable in any action brought by the attorney general or county or district attorney in the district court of the county in which the meeting was held within ten (10) days of the meeting, and the court shall have jurisdiction to issue injunctions or writs of mandamus to enforce the provisions of this act.
“(b) Civil penalties sued for and recovered hereunder by the attorney general shall be paid into the state general fund. Civil penalties sued for and recovered hereunder by a county or district attorney shall be paid into the general fund of the county where the proceedings were instigated.” K.S.A. 75-4320. Emphasis supplied.
I note the action which is considered voidable under this *541penalty provision is referred to as any “binding action.” I further note that, although the penalty is referred to as a civil penalty, a violation subjects the violator to a class C misdemeanor punishable by a civil penalty or fine of not to exceed $500.00.
The act provides for notice as follows:
“(b) Notice of the date, time and place of any regular or special meeting of a public body designated hereinabove shall be furnished to any person requesting such information, except that:
“(1) If notice is requested by petition, the petition shall designate one person to receive notice on behalf of all persons named in the petition, and notice to such person shall constitute notice to all persons named in the petition; and
“(2) if notice is furnished to an executive officer of an employees’ organization or trade association, such notice shall be deemed to have been furnished to the entire membership of such organization or association.
“(c) It shall be the duty of the presiding officer or other person calling the meeting, if the meeting is not called by the presiding officer, to furnish the information required by subsection (b).
“(d) Prior to any meeting hereinabove mentioned, any agenda relating to the business to be transacted at such meeting shall be made available to any person requesting said agenda.” K.S.A. 1981 Supp. 75-4318. Emphasis supplied.
The above provision raises some question as to whether a “knowing violation” of the act occurred in the present case in the absence of a request for the information in advance of the meetings. The secretary to the Board of Trustees of the hospital received 42 letters of request for notice of time, place, and meeting agenda for all regular, special, and executive session meetings. However, none of these were dated or received before the November 3rd meeting which was the basis for convictions under Count I.
Be that as it may, my disagreement with the majority stems from the expansion of the term “open meeting” to all meetings. Although “meeting” is defined in K.S.A. 75-4317a to include any prearranged gathering of a majority of the membership for the purpose of discussing the business or affairs of the body, this does not require a construction that every such “meeting” is to be an “open meeting.” If such were the case, the three county commissioners could not legally arrange to eat lunch together.
K.S.A. 1981 Supp. 75-4318 is the section of the act which says what meetings must be open to the public. That section of the statute limits the “open meeting” to “all meetings for the conduct of the affairs of, and the transaction of business.” It should be noted that the section covering the penalties, K.S.A. 75-4320, *542refers only to this section of the statute. The penalty section does not mention or impose penalties for meetings as defined in 75-4317a.
I cannot believe it was intended to prevent members of public bodies from attending emergency meetings for which there is little or no opportunity for advance public notice. They also should be permitted to attend meetings to interview prospective employees living in a neighboring city. Surely the public would have no right to insist on accompanying the officials when they conduct such interviews. Especially should this kind of trip be permitted when no “binding action” is contemplated and none taken. To hold otherwise, a public body could not take care of emergency matters. Closed executive sessions require a formal motion acted on at a regular called meeting. K.S.A. 1981 Supp. 75-4319. There would be no opportunity to call the required meeting necessary to act on the motion for executive session.
The open meetings law was not passed to prevent public bodies from attending to emergency matters when it is impossible to give advance notice. If no “binding action” is taken until later at a regular called meeting open to the public I can see no violation. Such was the evidence in the present case.
The use of a criminal penalty for enforcement of the open meetings law in this case, instead of the remedies of mandamus and injunctive relief, did nothing to further open meetings in Thomas County. These former members of public bodies are no longer in office. Under the majority opinion the present officers could be fined for violating this law for failure to give notice. So-called civil penalties in this case are nothing less than fines assessed against former public officers. It is quite apparent that some of these misdemeanants attended other similar meetings on the advice of the county attorney. Even the county attorney did not understand that all gatherings were subject to the penalties of the open meetings law. Prior to today this court had never decided that question. The penalty provision of the law requires a knowing violation but under the majority opinion a violation occurs regardless of intent to violate the act.
I feel the construction placed upon this act by the majority opinion is much too restrictive. It will not permit public officials to act in emergencies. It will not permit them to carry out ordinary personal fact-finding tours. It will not permit public officials to *543conduct employee interviews in the prospective employee’s usual and customary environment. The open meetings law was never meant to be so restrictive and I respectfully dissent.