I concur with the sound law, reasoning and conclusion expressed by Presiding Justice Brown but would add these further supportive observations.
*334I
Where we are asked to overturn a final order based upon the factual finding of the Agricultural Labor Relations Board (Board) the appeal court’s task commences with the recognition of but one fundamental standard for appellate court review. Our power to review factual findings of the Board is limited. Such findings are “conclusive” if supported by substantial evidence “on the record considered as a whole.” (Lab. Code, § 1160.8; Tex-Cal Land Management, Inc. v. Agricultural Labor Relations Bd. (1979) 24 Cal.3d 335, 343 [156 Cal.Rptr. 1, 595 P.2d 579]; Universal Camera Corp. v. Labor Bd. (1951) 340 U.S. 474, 488 [95 L.Ed. 456, 467, 71 S.Ct. 456, 464]; N.L.R.B. v. Pacific Grinding Wheel Co., Inc. (9th Cir. 1978) 572.F.2d 1343, 1347; N.L.R.B. v. Warren L. Rose Castings, Inc. (9th Cir. 1978) 587 F.2d 1005, 1008.) “[I]f there is evidence to support each of two conflicting views, the findings of the Board must be allowed to stand despite the fact that we might have reached the opposite conclusion on our own. [Citations.]” (N.L.R.B. v. Pacific Grinding Wheel Co., Inc., supra, 572 F.2d 1343, 1347.) We must start with the finding made by the Board and accept it if it is supported by substantial evidence. (N.L.R.B. v. Miller Redwood Company (9th Cir. 1969) 407 F.2d 1366, 1369.)
The Grower (Abatti) contends the discharges here challenged were not for union activities, but because of valid business reasons. In such factual circumstance, it was the province of the Board to decide on conflicting evidence the employer’s motivation. (United States Rubber Company v. N.L.R.B. (5th Cir. 1967) 384 F.2d 660, 663; N.L.R.B. v. Ayer Lar Sanitarium (9th Cir. 1970) 436 F.2d 45, 49.) Where, as here, the employer’s motive is the central issue, the fact finder must often rely heavily on circumstantial evidence and inferences. Only rarely will there be probative direct evidence of the employer’s motivation. (Shattuck Denn Mining Corp. (Iron King Branch) v. N.L.R.B. (9th Cir. 1966) 362 F.2d 466.) It is a well-established rule that in such cases the Board is free to draw inferences from all the circumstances and need not accept self-serving declarations of intent, even if they are uncontradicted. (N.L.R.B. v. Pacific Grinding Wheel Co., Inc., supra; Shattuck Denn Mining Corp. (Iron King Branch) v. N.L.R.B., supra; N.L.R.B. v. Warren L. Rose Castings Inc., supra.)
This further corollary is applicable in discriminatory discharge/hire cases: “[T]he cases are legion that the existence of a justifiable ground *335for discharge will not prevent such discharge from being an unfair labor practice if partially motivated by the employee’s protected activity; a business reason cannot be used as a pretext for a discriminatory firing. [Citations.] The test is whether the business reason or the protected union activity is the moving cause behind the discharge. [Citations.] In other words, would this employee have been discharged but for his union activity? [Citation.]” (N.L.R.B. v. Ayer Lar Sanitarium, supra, 436 F.2d 45, 50.)
By this test, whether the protected union activity is the “dominant motive” is not relevant. Thus the appeal court does not delve into metaphysics or the litigant’s psyche in search of a “dominant motive” but rather the Board must meet its burden of demonstrating a “prima facie,” or “significant” improper motivation by substantial evidence. The matter may not end there, for the employer may defend by proving that there was a valid “business” reason for the discharge and that “it would have reached the same decision... even in the absence of the protected conduct.” (Mt. Healthy City Board of Ed. v. Doyle (1977) 429 U.S. 274, 287 [50 L.Ed.2d 471, 484, 97 S.Ct. 568, 576].) The burden of proof on this issue is on the employer, not the Board.
As was said in N.L.R.B. v. Eastern Smelting & Refining Corp. (1st Cir. 1979) 598 F.2d 666, 671: “We have put the Mt. Healthy principle in the past in terms that, if the employer has established a good reason, it is not to be charged unless its action would not have been taken ‘but for’ the improper motivation, words now to be found in the penultimate paragraph of the Court’s recent opinion, following Mt. Healthy, in Givhan v. Western Line Consol. School Dist....99 S.Ct. 693,... .Givhan held the employer entitled to this defense even though its improper motivation was the ‘primary’ one—an admitted reliance upon conduct which the Court found was constitutionally protected. However, using the Mt. Healthy and Givhan test, once the Board has shown a ‘significant’ improper motivation, the burden is on the employer to prove that it had a good reason, sufficient in itself, to produce the discharge. [Citation.]” (Fns. omitted.)
The ninth circuit (N.L.R.B. v. Central Press of California (9th Cir. 1975) 527 F.2d 1156, 1158) has articulated this correct procedure: “The Board noted that the general counsel had established a prima facie case of an unfair labor practice. It then said that such a case can be ‘overcome only by a preponderance of competent, credible rebutting *336evidence. But respondent has not sustained its burden of going forward to adduce such proof.’ [Citation.]
“Moreover, even if we were unsure whether the Board considered this assertion, we would enforce the order because the Board found that anti-union sentiment had at least partially motivated the discharge. This finding is supported by substantial evidence and we will not disturb it. [Citations.]... .
“This court has said in a similar situation: [Although justifiable grounds may abound, a discharge is unlawful even if it is 1partially motivated by the employee’s protected activity. . ..’ [Citation.]”
II
Nor does disagreement between the ALO and the Board change the rule. In N.L.R.B. v. Pacific Grinding Wheel Co., Inc., supra, 572 F.2d 1343, 1347, the court stated: “The company, to maximize the weight of the Administrative Law Judge’s refusal to find a failure to bargain, argues that there is no evidence to support the Board’s overruling of his recommendation. However, this is an incorrect formulation of the issue. The standard of review does not change simply because the Board has disagreed with the Administrative Law Judge. [Citation.] We must still start with the finding made by the Board and accept it if it is supported by substantial evidence. [Citation.]
“The Board is free to draw its own inferences from the evidence available to it. Thus, if the Board can point to evidence which supports its inference, courts have allowed the Board’s finding to stand despite the fact that the Administrative Law Judge interpreted the facts contrary to the inference drawn. [Citations.]”
The statutorily mandated deference to findings of fact “runs in favor of the Board, not in favor of the initial trier-of-facts, the administrative law judge.” (Penasquitos Village, Inc. v. N.L.R.B. (9th Cir. 1977) 565 F.2d 1074, 1076.)
Ill
Nor does the rule change because the ALO findings are based upon testimonial demeanor. In Universal Camera Corp. v. Labor Bd., supra, *337340 U.S. 474, 496 [95 L.Ed. 456, 472], the Supreme Court said: “The findings of the examiner are to be considered along with the consistency and inherent probability of testimony. The significance of his report, of course, depends largely on the importance of credibility in the particular case.”
In Penasquitos Village, Inc. v. N.L.R.B., supra, 565 F.2d 1074, 1079, Judge Wallace stated: “[W]e do not hold that the administrative law judge’s determinations of credibility based on demeanor are conclusive on the Board. Many circuits, including ours, have held that they are not. [Citations.] We simply observe that the special deference deservedly afforded the administrative law judge’s factual determinations based on testimonial inferences will weigh heavily in our review of a contrary finding by the Board.”
Judge Duniway “dissented”1 in Penasquitos Village, Inc., supra, observing (pp. 1084-1085): “The notion that special deference is owed to the determination of a trier of fact, whether judge, trial examiner, hearing officer (‘administrative law judge’), or jury, because the trier ‘sees the witnesses and hears them testify, while the Board and the reviewing court look only at cold records,’ [citation], is deeply imbedded in the law. There must be thousands of appellate decisions that state and restate it in an infinite variety of ways. I could not disregard it if I would; indeed, I have no desire to do so. As a generalization, it is unassailable.
“[Ijnnumerable cases.. .state and restate the importance of a witness’s demeanor to the trier of fact, there are very few that deal with the proper effect of this or that aspect of demeanor. Those that I can find tend to confirm my view that myth and folklore are involved.”
A most succinct analysis of the evidentiary position occupied by demeanor-based credibility findings was expressed by Judge Merrill in Carbo v. United States (9th Cir. 1963) 314 F.2d 718, 749: “Credibility involves more than demeanor. It apprehends the over-all evaluation of testimony in the light of its rationality or internal consistency and the manner in which it hangs together with other evidence.”
*338I would join Judge Choy in concurring with Judge Duniway’s “eloquent exposition” (Penasquitos Village, Inc. v. N.L.R.B., supra, 565 F.2d 1074, 1084-1085) where he said: “I am convinced, both from experience as a trial lawyer and from experience as an appellate judge, that much that is thought and said about the trier of fact as a lie detector is myth or folklore. Every trial lawyer knows, and most trial judges will admit, that it is not unusual for an accomplished liar to fool a jury (or, even, heaven forbid, a trial judge) into believing him because his demeanor is so convincing. The expression of his countenance may be open and frank; he may sit squarely in the chair, with no squirming; he may show no nervousness; his answers to questions may be clear, concise and audible, and given without hesitation; his coloration may be normal—neither pale nor flushed. In short, he may appear to be the trial lawyer’s ideal witness. He may also be a consummate liar. In such a case, the fact finder may fit Iago’s description of Othello:
“The Moor is of a free and open nature, That thinks men honest that but seem to be so; And will as tenderly be led by the nose as asses are. (Othello, Act 1, Sc. 3, 1.405-8)
“On the other hand, another fact finder seeing and hearing the same witness may conclude that he is just too good a testifier, that he is an expert actor, and that he is also a liar.”
Labor Code section 1160.3 provides in part: “If, upon the preponderance of the testimony taken, the board shall be of the opinion that any person named in the complaint has [or has not] engaged in or is [or is not] engaging in any such unfair labor practice, the board shall state its finding of fact.. .. ” This statutory responsibility for decision placed on the Board is wholly inconsistent with the notion that it has power to reverse an examiner’s findings only when they are “‘clearly erroneous.’” (See Penasquitos Village, Inc., supra, 565 F.2d 1074, 1087.) The final word was said by Judge Lumbard in N.L.R.B. v. Interboro Contractors, Inc. (2d Cir. 1967) 388 F.2d 495, 499: “While the standard set forth in Universal Camera is imprecise, ‘it provides as much clarity as the area affords.’”
I would conclude that the Board should have, and does have, more leeway in making its own findings, and in rejecting findings of its trial examiners, than we have in reviewing the Board’s findings or those of a trial judge or jury. (See Universal Camera Corp. v. Labor Bd., supra, 340 U.S. 474, 492 [95 L.Ed. 456, 469].)
*339IV
The faithful application of the foregoing rules require:
(A) I concur with Presiding Justice Brown’s affirmation of the Board’s finding of wrongful denial of access.
(B) I concur with the refusal of enforcement of the Board’s order finding impermissible surveillance by security guard Kile. I cannot find in the entire record “relevant evidence as a reasonable mind might accept as adequate to support a conclusion” (Edison Co. v. Labor Bd. (1938) 305 U.S. 197, 229 [83 L.Ed. 126, 140, 59 S.Ct. 206, 217]) that Kile was in fact “surveilling” anyone as that term is commonly understood and defined. (See Webster’s Third New Internat. Diet., p. 2302.)
(C) I concur with the affirmation of the Board’s finding of impermissible interrogation of employees Herlinda Avitua, Rodriguez, Bermea and Berumen.
It is an unfair labor practice for the employer “[t]o interfere with, restrain, or coerce agricultural employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in Section 1152.” (Lab. Code, § 1153, subd. (a).) Labor Code section 1152 grants agricultural employees the “right to self-organization, to form, join or assist labor organizations.... ” But expressions, opinions and their dissemination “[should] not constitute evidence of an unfair labor practice.. .if such expression contains no threat of reprisal or force, or promise of benefit.” (Lab. Code, § 1155; italics added.)
The test on appellate review is whether substantial evidence supports the Board’s finding that the employer interrogation or expression contained a threat of reprisal and reasonably tended to restrain or interfere with the employees in the exercise of their protected rights. (Amalgamated Meat Cutters, etc., Local No. 364 v. N.L.R.B. (9th Cir. 1970) 435 F.2d 668, 669; Hughes & Hatcher, Inc. v. N.L.R.B. (6th Cir. 1968) 393 F.2d 557, 562-563; Dieckbrader Express, Inc., 168 N.L.R.B. 867, 869 (1967); Frito-Lay, Inc., 151 N.L.R.B. 28, 34 (1965); Penasquitos Village, Inc. v. N.L.R.B., supra, 565 F.2d 1074, 1080.)
In applying the foregoing rules, the Board relied upon the instructive reasoning of Blue Flash Express, Inc., 109 N.L.R.B. 591 (1954). There *340the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) weighed certain factors to determine whether employer interrogation was coercive under all the circumstances of the particular case. These factors included (a) whether the employer communicated to employees a legitimate purpose for the questioning, (b) gave assurances that no reprisal would take place, and (c) did the questioning occur in a background free of employer hostility to union organization. The NLRB in Blue Flash further noted that it would consider (d) the timing of questioning, (e) the nature of the information sought, (f) the truthfulness of an employee’s answer, and (g) the relationship of the personnel involved. {Blue Flash Express, Inc., supra, at p. 594.) The “Blue Flash” criteria has been approved by the courts. (See Bon-R-Reproductions, Inc. v. N.L.R.B. (2d Cir. 1962) 309 F.2d 898, 904; N.L.R.B. v. Historic Smithville Inn (3d Cir. 1969) 414 F.2d 1358, 1362.) The ninth circuit has applied “Blue Flash” factors holding express reassurance by an employer of no retaliation or a history of free and open discussion of union activities without reprisal might in some circumstances preclude a finding of coerciveness. (Penasquitos Village, Inc. v. N.L.R.B., supra, 565 F.2d 1074, 1080.)
Further, whether certain words do contain a threat of reprisal and would reasonably tend to restrain or interfere with an employee’s exercise of a protected right is a matter that calls for some detailed understanding of the agricultural labor scene, the peculiar relationship between a field laborer and supervisor with power to hire and fire the non-English speaking agricultural migrant laborers, as well as the nature of the symbols used to communicate. These questions presented to the Board were of such nature as to call for expertise. Presumptively the Board is equipped or informed by experience to deal with this specialized field of knowledge; therefore their findings carry the authority of an experience which the courts do not possess and therefore must respect. (Universal Camera Corp. v. Labor Bd., supra, 340 U.S. 474, 488 [95 L.Ed. 456, 467].)
There are three incidents of coercive interrogation involving Herlinda Avitua. As to the first, where Rios interrogated Avitua about her signing of a UFW authorization card, the employer (contrary to its general legal stance) argues the ALO should be reversed even though his crediting of Avitua was explicitly based on witness demeanor. The Board in its findings deferred to the ALO’s credibility resolution.
Next the Board reversed the ALO’s finding as to the second incident in which Rios interrogated Avitua about her vote. The ALO had in fact *341overlooked testimony by Avitua that this had occurred. The Board based its finding upon her testimony and the ALO’s general crediting of her as a witness plus the corroborating testimony of Elena Solano.
The employer’s primary argument as to the third incident in which supervisor Rios directed Avitua to remove a UFW button is that the statement was not coercive, and therefore not unlawful. The employer relies upon Avitua’s testimony that she was not intimidated herself by the statement and that she continued to wear the button for several days thereafter. Such evidence may be relevant in some circumstances but is not controlling. {Blue Flash Express, Inc., supra, 109 N.L.R.B. 591.)
Furthermore, the test as established by NLRB precedent is not whether the employees were actually intimidated but whether the employer engaged in conduct which may reasonably be said tended to interfere with the free exercise of the employee’s rights. (Labor Board v. Link-Belt Co. (1941) 311 U.S. 584, 599 [85 L.Ed. 368, 378-379, 61 S.Ct. 358].) Finally the employer argues the questioning of Avitua was “amicable,” noncoercive; the employer’s action—a discriminatory firing of Avitua—speaks much louder than words. The Board found that in all the circumstances of this case, the amicable nature of the conversation was not relevant since other factors made the statement coercive.
Next, the Board’s finding of coercive interrogation is supported by the direct evidence from the three employees, Rodriguez, Bermea and Berumen, as well as corroborating testimony from Ortiz. Supervisor Gonzales told Ortiz that a reprisal—firing—was possible against Bermea for his keeping the union membership list. The Board considered the undisputed factual matrix in which the foregoing statements were made. The union was attempting to organize the Growers’ workforce. To say the Grower did not approve is to grossly understate the quality and intensity of the Growers’ negative response. The charged coercive interrogation occurred shortly before and during the hotly contested first union representation election.
The Growers’ antipathy to the unionization was expressed in a whole series of incidents from which the Board found a pattern of discrimination. This included evidence of multiple attempts by the Grower to intimidate and coerce steady employees against unionization by interrogation, threats of reprisal, denials of access, procuring arrest of organizers, and ultimately the firing of union leaders. Thirteen union *342activist employees were discharged from the Growers’ workforce shortly before or after this first representation election conducted at Abattis’ ranch; eleven of the thirteen were the organizing committee members in their crews and the only UFW supporters. The remaining two had on occasion openly displayed their support for the union. Eight of the thirteen testified to their being interrogated, threatened with reprisal, or being the recipients of other coercive statements. Statistically, the union supporters fired constituted slightly more than 50 percent of the employees laid off, whereas the total number laid off was between 20 and 25 percent of petitioner’s steady workforce. Virtually every other nonunion employee laid off at the same time found his or her way back into the Growers’ workforce, while only one union supporter did and in other work than that from which he was laid off and with a supervisor’s stated hope that his boss would not find out.
The employer offered no evidence of any express reassurance against reprisal. On the contrary, supervisor Gonzalez used language that can be reasonably interpreted as threatened retaliation for UFW support. The Growers did in fact carry out that threat—discharged 13 union supporters. Furthermore, the Abatti-UFW history was not one of free and open discussion but rather bitter contest over unionization of its employees. Each of these employees were interrogated (or threatened with reprisal) by their immediate supervisors who had the power to hire and fire and that interrogations coincided with a union organization campaign. In some cases, employees gave false answers to protect themselves. No reason, legitimate or otherwise, was ever given for the information sought. Thus every “Blue Flash” evidentiary factor was here present. This web of circumstantial evidence tended to refute the Grower’s contention of noncoercive questioning and constitutes substantial evidence which supports the conclusions of the Board.
In these circumstances to overturn the Board’s decision is to substitute our judgment on weight of evidence for that of the Board. The “flavor” of their conversations is a matter peculiarly for the Board’s evaluation, not ours. There is no lack of substantial evidence—when the record is viewed as a whole—to support the Board’s determination.
(D) I concur with the affirmance of the Board’s findings of coercive interrogations by supervisor Figueroa of employee Abelino Ortega. The language used is undisputed as well as was Ortega’s perception of the albeit allegorical (“bird in your hand”), yet coercive words as a threat *343of loss of his job. While the language used may be ambiguous or allegorical when viewed in restrospect from this happy estate of labor peace, yet the Board viewed it in the context of Figueroa’s known dislike for the union, of interrogation and threats of reprisal in other steady crews; its timing was just before the representational election; and most significantly it followed Figueroa’s eavesdropping on Ortega’s conversation with another employee and his subsequent interrogation of Ortega about his union views. Ortega’s testimony is explicit: he thought the story meant that if he supported the UFW he would end up with no job at Abatti. Such remarks must be viewed in the context of a union campaign. (N.L.R.B. v. Tru-Line Metal Products Company (6th Cir. 1963) 324 F.2d 614, 616.) When made during a period when unionization of employees is sought, management statements to employees that it might be necessary to close a plant if the union gets in, are coercive, notwithstanding a sincere belief that such will occur. (Ibid., citing United Fireworks Mfg. Co. v. N.L.R.B. (6th Cir. 1958) 252 F.2d 428, 430.)
Substantial evidence, direct and circumstantial, support the Board’s decision.
(E) I concur in enforcing the Board’s finding of illegal interrogation of employees Jiminez, Chavez and Ayon. Foreman Sanchez told Jiminez not to wear a UFW button into the shop because he would get in trouble with Ben Abatti. It is argued this was merely a friendly suggestion and Jiminez was not intimidated. Jiminez stated he was not intimidated by the Abatti antiunion position, yet it is uncontradicted that he removed the button after Sanchez’ statement and did not wear it to the shop again.
The next incident occurred when foreman Sanchez told Chavez that Ben Abatti had told irrigator foreman Figueroa that he knew the UFW leaders in the crew and that Figueroa was not to give them work. Such words are “operative facts,” do not come under the hearsay exclusion and were properly considered by the Board.
Whether Ben Abatti in fact uttered such words is not relevant to the charge of coercive interrogation. What is significant is that foreman Sanchez made the statement and in the context where the statement itself would reasonably tend to convey the message to Chavez that similar orders would be given to Sanchez if UFW support surfaced among his crew members. Chavez was in fact laid off, refused referral to other available jobs and rehire.
*344With respect to supervisor Quiroz’ admission of a conversation with employee Ayon in which he stated if the Abattis did not want to sign with the UFW, they could just quit planting. In the context of an upcoming representation election, the unmistakable message was that Ayon should abandon support for the UFW or risk the elimination of his job. Such threats of reprisal are coercive and a violation of employee rights under the Agricultural Labor Relations Act (Act). (See N.L.R.B. v. Tru-Line Metal Products Company, supra, 324 F.2d 614.)
Finally, there was the second not too subtle threat of loss of job made to Ayon when the Abattis’ secretary-treasurer stated (when she saw Ayon’s UFW button) Abatti would shift to less labor intensive crops in the event of a UFW victory. The words used by the Abatti official are uncontradicted. Again, the totality of circumstances, events occurring at this time added to the words used, supply substantial evidence supporting the Board’s determination. It is urged that the statements were made in a “friendly” atmosphere. The denial of access to, arrest of union organizers, the threat of loss of job, followed by firing, refusal to refer to other available jobs or rehire 14 union activists belie any “friendly” cast upon these words.
The dissenting opinion voices a responsibility to protect First Amendment freedom. I echo, support such a concern and duty. However, to recite the conceded premise that any employer or employee has the freedom of speech guaranteed by the First Amendment is but to avoid the real issue here.
The true question is not whether any employer has a fundamental constitutionally protected right of free speech—he has—but rather did the employer’s expression contain a “threat of reprisal.” This is a factual question whose answer rests here in much evidence and expert appraisal. “Any assessment of the precise scope of employer expression, of course, must be made in the context of its labor relations setting. Thus, an employer’s [First Amendment] rights cannot outweigh the equal rights of the employees to associate freely, as those rights are embodied in § 7 and protected by § 8(a)(1) [of the Act]. ... ” (NLRB v. Gissel Packing Co. (1969) 395 U.S. 575, 617 [23 L.Ed.2d 547, 580, 89 S.Ct. 1918, 1942] italics added.)
The recited wealth of direct and circumstantial evidence supports the Board’s conclusion. Freedom of speech does not authorize either gross or subtle employee coercion.
*345(F) Finally I concur with the enforcement of the Board’s order reinstating 13 of the 14 union activists fired. Presiding Justice Brown has succinctly reviewed the evidence and substantiated the Board’s finding of discriminatory firing and refusal to rehire.
A 59-page decision of the Board documents its own credibility findings with a detailed factual summary and a thoughtful evaluative analysis of the evidence presented on the entire record. Such decision carries its own badges of reliability.
I concur in the enforcement of the Board’s order reinstating the 13 discharged workers.
Concurred in by Judge Choy, thus making it the majority view on this specific point of law.