(dissenting). The opinion of the Court states that a defendant may appeal from an unconditional guilty plea where the claim on appeal "implicates the very authority of the state to bring the defendant to trial, that is, where the right of the government to prosecute the defendant is challenged. Such rights are never waived by a plea of guilty . . . .” Where, however, "the claim sought to be appealed involves only the capacity of the state to prove defendant’s factual guilt, it is waived by a plea of guilty . . . ,”1 (Emphasis supplied.)
The distinction is not, in my. opinion, sound. An accused has a constitutional right not to be convicted except upon evidence establishing his guilt2 to the satisfaction of a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. If the motion to suppress evidence seized at the hotel room that Perez was occupying had been granted or New’s confessional statement had been suppressed, there might not have been sufficient evidence to persuade a jury of their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The state has no greater right to prosecute a defendant without sufficient valid evidence of his guilt than to prosecute a defendant *497who has a valid defense of double jeopardy or entrapment.
At least in a case where the prosecution’s ability to convict of the charged offense depends on the evidence sought to be suppressed, I see no substantial difference between a case where the government has insufficient valid evidence to convict and a case where the defendant has a valid double jeopardy or entrapment defense. In both cases "the very authority of the state to bring the defendant to trial” and "the right of the government to prosecute the defendant” are implicated.
The argument that the defendant admitted his guilt in open court does not distinguish the instant cases where the defendants unsuccessfully sought to suppress evidence from a case where the defendant unsuccessfully claimed double jeopardy or entrapment before pleading guilty. In the double jeopardy and entrapment cases, the defendant will also have admitted his guilt in open court and provided a factual basis for acceptance of his plea of guilty. The presumption of innocence, the constitutional right not to be convicted except upon presentation of the requisite valid evidence,3 is as important and possibly more important than the Double Jeopardy Clause and the principle that the state may not obtain a conviction by entrapment.
i
In People v Reid, 420 Mich 326; 362 NW2d 655 (1984), this Court held that a defendant could obtain appellate review following a plea of guilty of a decision denying a motion to suppress evidence where the prosecutor and judge agreed at *498the time of the plea of guilty to a so-called conditional plea. Appellate review following a plea of guilty of a denial of a motion to suppress is thus not inherently inconsistent with the finality that ordinarily attaches to a plea of guilty.
In People v Reid, pp 332-333, this Court observed:
Some federal courts allow a conditional guilty plea whenever a substantial constitutional claim is involved. Although the United States Supreme Court has not squarely considered the validity of a conditional guilty plea, it has, in dictum, spoken with apparent approval of a New York statute allowing a conditional plea.12
II
What is at stake in the instant cases is not a technical difference between a "jurisdictional” and a nonjurisdictional defense,4 but appellate docket congestion and plea bargaining._
*499If the Court of Appeals would routinely hear interlocutory appeals from the denial of a suppression motion, a defendant could then obtain appellate review before he is confronted with the choice of pleading guilty or standing trial and there would generally be no need to preserve a right of appeal following a guilty plea.
The reality, however, is that neither the Court of Appeals nor this Court can hear many interlocutory appeals. Even if the appellate courts could do so, the delay in trial would be unacceptable. Criminal cases should be tried promptly for a number of reasons.
In People v Reid, pp 334-335, n 14, this Court said:
It has been asserted that allowing a defendant to plead guilty and thereafter to appeal a nonjurisdictional issue could result in further overcrowding of the appellate courts. The state, however, has no legitimate interest in discouraging a defendant from appealing an adverse ruling in order to reduce the appellate caseload.14 The issues involved in an appeal may not be presumed to be frivolous.
The procedure for interlocutory review of a defendant’s pretrial motion does not provide an adequate opportunity for appellate review of trial court rulings. Such review is granted only infrequently, not as a matter of course. In any event, if *500interlocutory review is granted, it presents no less a strain on appellate resources than appeal following a plea of guilty or trial.
A defendant may have a legitimate legal defense notwithstanding his factual guilt. As [noted by the dissenting Court of Appeals judge] in Reid, "[a] qualified plea does not cause the courts to consider claims to which a defendant 'was not entitled.’ It merely allows a defendant to say, 'Yes, I did the act, but I contest the state’s ability to present its case against me.’ There may be a number of reasons why a defendant would feel he had a legitimate legal defense to the state’s prosecution, but that it would be futile or impossible for the defendant to say that he did not do the act with which he was charged.” 113 Mich App 262, 269; 317 NW2d 589 (1982).
It is argued that permitting an appeal from a guilty plea would deprive the plea of finality, create delay, and interfere with the deterrent effect of punishment. In cases where the defendant chooses to go to trial in order to preserve his right of appeal, however, not only is finality not achieved, but a successful appeal may result in two trials and two appeals. [See People v Reid, supra, p 220.]
Ill
A defendant may conclude that unless he can secure reversal of an adverse ruling on a pretrial issue, the possibility of persuading the trier of fact does not justify proceeding to trial. The defendant is nevertheless obliged to stand trial in order to preserve his right to appeal the pretrial ruling unless permitted to appeal following a plea of *501guilty.5 Both the state and such a defendant are unnecessarily required by today’s decision to endure the burdens of a criminal trial.
Other defendants might forego their appellate rights to avoid a trial at which, given the pretrial ruling, they believe they have little possibility of succeeding. Some may believe they will be treated more leniently by the sentencing judge, who usually will be the same judge who made the adverse pretrial ruling, if they plead guilty than they would be if they went to trial.
In both of the instant cases, the prosecutor offered a significant charge reduction in exchange for the plea of guilty which this Court today holds waived the defendant’s right to appeal from the denial of his suppression motion.
The courts have permitted a prosecutor to offer a charge reduction in exchange for a plea of guilty. Both the prosecutor and the defendant may be concerned how the jury will resolve the issue of guilt and innocence and may compromise on a plea to a lesser charge. One does not know how the proofs will come in at a trial, how the lawyer’s arguments will be perceived, what mishaps might occur during the course of the trial, or what the jury will do. Those uncertainties cannot be eliminated and are thought to justify compromise by the prosecutor and defendant.
Uncertainty resulting from an erroneous ruling on a suppression motion can be eliminated by providing for appellate review. Having in mind the advantages the judicial system permits to be offered for a plea of guilty, an erroneous ruling that cannot be readily appealed is undue and improper pressure to plead guilty. The pressure stems in part from the failure of the judicial system to *502assure a correct ruling by securing an appellate opportunity to obtain reversal following a plea of guilty of an erroneous ruling that cannot be readily appealed before the defendant must choose whether to stand trial or, accepting the advantages offered for a plea of guilty, plead guilty.
To the extent the failure to provide an appellate opportunity either after a plea of guilty or before the defendant must choose whether to accept or waive the advantages offered for a plea of guilty may increase the likelihood of erroneous ruling at the trial level, the denial of appeal after a plea of guilty is a further source of pressure to plead guilty.
iv
We are not here considering compromise based on doubt as to how a jury will resolve a factual dispute, but compromise as to how an appellate court will decide an appeal from a denial of a suppression motion.
If, as this Court held in People v Reid, supra, appellate review is permissible following a plea of guilty when the prosecutor and the judge consent, then it ought to be questioned on what basis the prosecutor, the defendant’s adversary, and the judge, whose ruling would be reviewed, should be empowered to decide whether to allow or withhold "consent” to such review.
It is the responsibility of this Court and of the Court of Appeals to assure that motions to suppress are decided according to law. A plea bargain blocking appellate review should be viewed as an intrusion on the responsibility of the appellate courts to supervise the administration of justice in the trial courts. To the extent that through plea bargaining rulings adverse to the defendant can be *503insulated from appellate review, the rights of defendants can be vitiated by a judge who is less disposed than are the appellate courts to protect those rights.
The integrity of the judicial system requires that an erroneous adverse ruling not be used as part of the pressure exerted on defendants to plead guilty. The way to assure that an erroneous ruling is not used, in whole or in part, to obtain a guilty plea is to assure, as is done in a number of states,6 a right of appeal without regard to whether the defendant pleads guilty.
v
If appeal following a guilty plea were allowed without the consent of the prosecutor and the prosecutor were to claim that the prosecution of a guilty-pleading defendant can proceed without the *504evidence the defendant sought to suppress but that the delay attendant upon an appeal following a plea of guilty might result in loss of evidence or otherwise embarrass a successful prosecution, the judge or the Court of Appeals might, in the exercise of judicial discretion, allow the prosecution to take depositions to preserve testimony or grant such other protective relief as might appear appropriate.7
Ante, pp 495-496.
Thompson v Louisville, 362 US 199, 204; 80 S Ct 624; 4 L Ed 2d 654 (1960); Garner v Louisiana, 368 US 157, 164; 82 S Ct 248; 7 L Ed 2d 207 (1961); Johnson v Florida, 391 US 596, 598-599; 88 S Ct 1713; 20 L Ed 2d 838 (1968).
Id.; LaFave & Scott, Criminal Law, § 8, pp 52-53; Nowak, Rotunda & Young, Constitutional Law (2d ed), pp 534-535. In re Winship, 397 US 358, 361; 90 S Ct 1068; 25 L Ed 2d 368 (1970).
Lefkowitz v Newsome, 420 US 283, 292-293; 95 S Ct 886; 43 L Ed 2d 196 (1975).
Three states provide by statute that a defendant may appeal an order denying a motion to suppress evidence, notwithstanding a prior plea of guilty. California Penal Code, § 1538.5(m); Wisconsin Statutes Annotated, § 971.31(10); New York Code Crim Proc, § 710.70(2) (McKinney).
Other states authorize conditional pleas by judicial decision. See, e.g., Nickels v State, 545 P2d 163 (Alas, 1976); Cooksey v State, 524 P2d 1251 (Alas, 1974); State v Hutchinson, 349 So 2d 1252 (La, 1977); State v Lain, 347 So 2d 167 (La, 1977); Dorsey v Cupp, 12 Or App 604; 508 P2d 445 (1973). But see, e.g., State v Dorr, 184 NW2d 673 (Iowa, 1971); State v Turcotte, 164 Mont 426; 524 P2d 787 (1974).
In People v Reid, supra, p 333, n 13, this Court said:
More than one commentator has suggested that there is no clear and useful definition of the term "jurisdictional”:
"The obvious difficulty with 'jurisdictional error’ is that it is not self-defining; it is a label one attaches to those constitu*499tional defenses that are already determined — by some anterior standard — to deserve to be heard.
“In conclusion, for purposes of defining the kinds of claims that survive a guilty plea, the notion of jurisdictional error is either fallacious or useless: if understood in its technical sense as a term of art, it fails to explain the cases; if understood more broadly as a term for the guilty plea cases alone, it is superfluous.” Westen, Forfeiture by Guilty Plea — A Reply, 76 Mich L Rev 1308, 1330-1334 (1978).
A study of conditional guilty pleas concludes that "[ejxperience with conditional pleas in New York and California indicates that a relatively small number of additional appeals are generated; no 'flooding’ of appellate courts has resulted.” Note, Conditional Guilty Pleas, 93 Harv L Rev 564, 573 (1980).
See People v Reid, supra, n 12, quoted above.
See People v Reid, supra, ns 12 and 14, quoted in parts i and n, supra. In California, Wisconsin and New York, a plea of guilty is "conditional” without the defendant stating before the plea is accepted that the plea is conditioned on being allowed to appeal following conviction on the plea from the denial of the motion to suppress:
A defendant may seek further review of the validity of a search or seizure on appeal from a conviction in a criminal case notwithstanding the fact that such judgment of conviction is predicated upon a plea of guilty. Such review on appeal may be obtained by the defendant providing that at some stage of the proceedings prior to conviction he has moved for the return of property or the suppression of the evidence. [Cal Penal Code, § 1538.5(m).]
An order denying a motion to suppress evidence or a motion challenging the admissibility of a statement of a defendant may be reviewed upon appeal from a judgment of conviction notwithstanding the fact that such judgment was entered upon a plea of guilty. [Wis Stat Ann, § 971.31(10).]
An order finally denying a motion to suppress evidence may be reviewed upon an appeal from an ensuing judgment of conviction notwithstanding the fact that such judgment is entered upon a plea of guilty. [NY Code Crim Proc, § 710.70(2) (McKinney).]
Whatever infirmity there would be in using preserved testimony in the relatively few cases where there will be both a reversal on appeal following a plea of guilty and the prosecutor has substantial evidence of guilt other than the evidence suppressed on appeal but live testimony will be unavailable at a trial, is not so overwhelming a problem as to justify the use of erroneous rulings to obtain guilty pleas.